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story.lead_photo.caption Tony Bobulinski, who says he is a former associate of Hunter Biden, talks with reporters before the presidential debate, Oct. 22 in Nashville. (File photo/AP/Evan Vucci)

Editor’s note: The following is a transcript of an interview conducted by Fox News’ Tucker Carlson, who had Tony Bobulinski—a former business partner of Joe Biden’s son, Hunter—on his program Tucker Carlson Tonight on Tuesday night. Tucker Carlson’s show is an opinion cable network program, so we are labeling this as opinion, especially until the Bidens respond to it and more facts emerge that are able to be verified. But Mr. Bobulinski’s accusations are very specific, have not been covered extensively in the media, and the Democrat-Gazette thought readers should make up their own minds about his story.

PART ONE

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: So, Tony, your connection to this deal came through James Gilliar, who’s an English businessman who you — correct me if I’m wrong — you had met while doing business in various different countries. You talked about doing deals.

Then on Christmas Eve 2015, he sent you the following text which explained the deal with China that he wanted you to become part of, and I just want to read the first sentence of this. “There will be a deal between one of the most prominent families from the U.S. and them constructed by me.”

TONY BOBULINSKI, FORMER BUSINESS PARTNER OF HUNTER BIDEN: Yes, that’s correct.

CARLSON: Tell me what he was saying.

BOBULINSKI: So, James Gilliar was referencing something that he had been working on throughout 2015 with Rob Walker and a Chinese company called CEFC, and he had been traveling around the world developing that deal and that text was just the culmination of him making me aware that the deal was moving forward.

CARLSON: So, he doesn’t say, I want to do a deal with you and me and Hunter Biden — or even you, me, Hunter Biden and Jim Biden. He said, between one of the most prominent families from the United States. He’s talking about the Biden family.

BOBULINSKI: Yes that’s correct. It was never about Hunter Biden or Jim Biden. It was about the family name, the Biden legacy.

CARLSON: At this point, Joe Biden was the sitting vice president of the United States.

BOBULINSKI: Yes that’s correct.

CARLSON: OK, so I want to fast forward to 2017, early May, 2017, and at this point you’ve agreed to become part of this deal. Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, the vice president’s brother, James Gilliar, and they’re asking you to meet with the former vice president in Los Angeles.

Describe the context; describe why they wanted you to meet with him.

BOBULINSKI: OK. Across those days in Los Angeles in May of 2017 that you’re referencing, I met with Hunter Biden multiple times at the Chateau Marmont and Rob Walker, and the discussion was they wanted me to sit down with their father, just to meet him and, at a high level, discuss the Biden family and how they approach things.

CARLSON: Let me ask you to pause. Will you explain to us who Rob Walker is?

BOBULINSKI: Yeah. Rob Walker was a partner in Rosemont Seneca and had a very close relationship with the Biden family and had developed and been working with James Gilliar throughout 2015 and 2016 to develop this deal with the Chinese and CEFC.

CARLSON: What was his relationship with the Biden family?

BOBULINSKI: So my understanding is Rob had worked in prior administrations and had a very, very close relationship. In fact in Rob Walker’s own words in an email to me he states that you know everyone was contributing or telling me how they wanted to participate in Sinohawk, and in an email he basically states in his own words to me, I want to continue acting as a proxy for Hunter Biden, Jim Biden and the Bidens around the world.

CARLSON: The Biden family.

BOBULINSKI: The Biden family.

CARLSON: So they want you to meet with the former vice president in LA.

BOBULINSKI: Yes.

CARLSON: How did that play out?

BOBULINSKI: That’s correct. The former vice president was flying in, and we were to meet at the Beverly Hilton; the Milken Conference was going on, obviously one of the top three conferences in the world for anybody that’s a global investor or developing different humanitarian causes and a variety of things.

And he was, Joe was flying in to speak about the cancer and the Moonshot stuff he was working on, and Hunter and everyone was in town and they wanted to coordinate me meeting with Joe.

And so it was set up for the night of May 2nd at The Beverly Hilton. I first met with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden and just had a light discussion where they briefed me that, listen, my dad’s on the way, and you know we won’t go into too much detail on the business front, but we’ll just spend time talking at a high level about you, your background, the Biden family, and then you know he’s got to get some rest because he’s speaking at the conference in the morning.

CARLSON: So this was at night. The vice president had just flown across the country. He’s an older man; he’s got work to do.

BOBULINSKI: Correct.

CARLSON: But they carved out a piece of his schedule for you to meet with him. Why would they do that?

BOBULINSKI: Because they were sort of wining and dining me and presenting the strength of the Biden family to get me more engaged and want to take on the CEO role and develop Sinohawk both in the United States and around the world in partnership with CEFC.

And I, as you can imagine I’ve been asked by a hundred people the last month you know, why would you be meeting with Joe Biden, and I sort of turn the question around to the people that asked me, why at 10:38 on the night of May 2nd would Joe Biden take time out of his schedule to sit down with me in a dark bar at The Beverly Hilton, sort of positioned behind a column so people couldn’t see us, to have a discussion about his family and my family and business at a very high level where Jim Biden sat and Hunter Biden participated in?

I’m irrelevant in this story. They weren’t raising money for me. There was no other reason for me to be in that bar meeting Joe Biden than to discuss what I was doing with his family’s name and the Chinese CEFC.

CARLSON: He’s — and this is a company with direct connections to the communist government of China — so the former vice president has said he had no knowledge whatsoever of his son’s business dealings and was not involved in them at all. But this sounds like direct involvement in them.

BOBULINSKI: Yeah. That’s a blatant lie. When he states that, that is a blatant lie. Obviously the world’s aware that I attended the debate last Thursday, and in that debate he made a specific statement around questions around this from the president, and I’ll be honest with you; I almost stood up and screamed liar and walked out, because I was shocked that after four days or five days that they prepped for this, that the Biden family is taking that position to the world.

And once again, I’m irrelevant in this discussion. I just was brought in to run this company and have been exposed to all of this fact, and I believe the American people should see this fact.

I would have much preferred the Biden family go on record and define these facts to the American people and the globe versus me sitting here having a discussion with you on it.

CARLSON: So Joe Biden has not denied meeting with you in Los Angeles. Correct?

BOBULINSKI: Correct.

CARLSON: Tell us about the conversation that you had with him.

BOBULINSKI: So, I initially was sitting — because I got there a little earlier, was sitting with Jim Biden and Hunter Biden, and Joe came through the lobby with his security and Hunter basically said, hey, give me a second, I’ll go over and — give me 10 minutes to brief my dad and read him in on things.

And so then Hunter and his father and security came through the bar, and obviously I stood up out of respect to shake his hand and Hunter introduced me as, this is Tony, Dad, the individual I told you about that’s helping us with the business that we’re working on and the Chinese.

CARLSON: So it was clear to you that Joe Biden’s son had told him about this business deal?

BOBULINSKI: Crystal clear.

CARLSON: Crystal clear. Tell us about the conversation that subsequently occurred between you and Joe Biden.

BOBULINSKI: So the conversation — as you’re well aware, Tucker, I grew up the son of a career Naval officer, so the president of the United States was always the commander-in-chief, whether they were a Democrat or a Republican or other, and so I had the highest respect for Joe and the office that he had held. And so, I stood up and shook his hand.

And obviously, we sat down and I think ordered some drinks. I think Jim Biden was hungry and might have ordered some food. And you know, Joe asked me to talk about my background, my family. He thanked me for my service. I’m obviously very proud of that, proud of my brother’s service and my grandfather’s service.

And then he walked through sort of his family, you know, obviously some of the tragedies they’ve dealt with, his political career, on a high level.

We didn’t go into too much detail on business, because prior to Joe showing up Hunter and Jim had coached me, listen, we won’t go into too much detail here, so just a high-level discussion and meeting. So it’s not like I was drilling down with Joe about cap tables and details.

CARLSON: So, you said that they wanted you to meet Joe Biden as a way to induce you to participate in this deal. You were the actual business guy here who had management experience, deal experience. But it also sounds like Joe Biden was vetting you to some extent.

BOBULINSKI: Yes of course, like, I didn’t request to meet with Joe; they requested that I meet with Joe. And you know he s putting his — and Hunter says this in writing; it was reference multiple times, they were putting their entire family legacy on the line.

They knew exactly what they were doing. They were dealing with a Chinese-owned enterprise run by Chairman Ye, CEFC, that had strong financial support and political support from the Chinese Communist Party. That’s how it was presented to me. That’s not my own words; that’s how they presented to me and read me in on it and my —

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: They being Gilliar and Hunter Biden.

BOBULINSKI: They being Hunter Biden, who was very proud of that and taking credit for it when I sat with him for two hours on the patio of the Chateau Marmont in LA.

CARLSON: Proud that they were doing a deal with the Chinese Communist Party?

BOBULINSKI: Well, proud that they were, that he had the relationship with Chairman Ye who was running CEFC and the ability for them to get deals done around the world and stuff like that.

CARLSON: You’ve seen a number of journalists, reporters covering this story, including some who should know better, declare triumphantly that no document you’ve released connects the former vice president to this deal. How do you react to that? What’s answer to it?

BOBULINSKI: So, you can imagine what I’ve been through over the last couple months and knowing all this to be fact and watching Joe Biden and his family and their lawyers trot around the world stating that there was no involvement, or even at the debate Joe Biden referenced that, you’ve seen my tax returns, and there’s no money from foreign enterprise and that.

I want to simplify this for the American people as much as I can. On May 13th, that email was sent from James Gilliar to me. I didn’t generate that email. James Gilliar generated that email.

And in that email, James Gilliar goes through intimate detail of what each individual’s requests were from a compensation perspective and how the equity in the enterprise would be divvied up. Very important — May 13th, that email was generated by somebody else to me.

In that email, there’s a statement where they go through the equity; Jim Biden’s referenced as you know 10 percent, doesn’t say Biden it says Jim. And then it has 10 percent for the big guy held by H.

I one thousand percent sit here and know that the big guy is referencing Joe Biden. That’s crystal clear to me because I lived it. I met with the former vice president in person multiple times, and I had been meeting and talking with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden and Rob Walker and James Gilliar.

What the media’s tried to hide and I personally feel it’s disgusting, is between that May 13th email and the final document that was executed called Oneida Holdings LLC.

In Oneida Holdings LLC the equity is broken up 20 percent Hunter Biden, 20 percent Jim Biden. There are LLCs that represented them.

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: Twenty percent James Gilliar; 20 percent Rob Walker and 20 percent me and my investment entity.

What I’d ask the American people to read and look at is how from May 13th to the final Oneida document that got executed, did Jim Biden go from a 10 percent owner to a 20 percent owner? That’s not my question to answer. I’m sure there were discussions within the Biden family. I wasn’t privy to that discussion.

But this is Jim Biden, the brother of the potential future president of the United States. It’s not a distant cousin. It’s not an employee; it’s his brother, who in documents defines himself as a political advisor to his brother.

And so, I’ll leave that to the American people to answer that. But I don’t understand how the American journalist is allowing that gap to be even talked about and defined.

CARLSON: So—and I should say, and I want to put the document on the screen — in his pitch to the Chinese, in his bio, Jim Biden describes himself as an advisor, current advisor to his brother.

So was it clear to you from the beginning that what Jim Biden was bringing to this deal was his relationship with Joe Biden?

BOBULINSKI: Yeah, one thousand percent, crystal clear.

After I met with Joe Biden the morning of May 3rd at the Milken Conference and then was taken backstage after Joe had spoken. We joked around for about 10 minutes, 15 minutes and then I walked him out to his car. I think he was — I think they referenced he was off to see the lieutenant governor.

CARLSON: This is Joe Biden?

BOBULINSKI: Joe Biden, yes.

CARLSON: Joe, yes.

BOBULINSKI: And then after that, I went over the Peninsula Hotel and I sat with Jim Biden for two hours, where Jim Biden walked through his history, in his own words stating all the work and effort he did to get Joe Biden elected initially in Delaware and then through the family history and the role that he had played in it.

And in that meeting—remember, I’m the son of a Naval officer. I’m a Naval officer — was a Naval officer myself. And because I held a Q clearance, which is the equivalent of a top secret clearance, we’re audited every year.

So if you receive a gift, I think the — the barrier was $25, anything larger than $25 we had to disclose it to the government. Because obviously, anybody with a clearance the government is watching that they’re not influenced by the Russians, the Iranians, the Chinese and stuff like that.

So as I was listening to Jim walk through this — I have a big heart, if you talk to anybody who knows me, they would weigh-in on that. I’m a kind person.

And I’m — I’m thinking about the Biden family, like, how are they doing this? I know Joe decided not to run in 2016, but what if he ran in the future? Aren’t they taking political risk or headline risk?

And I remember looking at Jim Biden and saying, how are you guys getting away with this, like, aren’t you concerned?

And he — he looked at me and he laughed a little bit and said, plausible deniability.

CARLSON: He said that out loud?

BOBULINSKI: Yes, he said it directly to me one on one in a cabana at the Peninsula Hotel after about a — you know, hour and a half — two-hour meeting. With me asking out of concern how are you guys doing this.

Aren’t you concerned that you’re going to put your brother’s future presidential campaign at risk — the Chinese — the stuff that you guys have been doing already in 2015 and 2016 around the world?

And I just can almost picture his face, where he sort of chuckles and says, “You know, plausible deniability.”

CARLSON: So he said — this is a man who has been drafting off his brother’s political career for almost 50 years — he said to your face essentially, we’re lying about it?

BOBULINSKI: Anyone watching this interview can look up what plausible deniability means —

CARLSON: Yes.

BOBULINSKI: And the definition is very distinct.

CARLSON: That’s remarkable. So, I just want to backup a second. Just to be clear, you met with Joe Biden twice?

BOBULINSKI: Yes, that’s correct.

CARLSON: What did he say to you after — so he gives his speech at the Milken Conference. I mean, this is all checkable —

BOBULINSKI: Yes.

CARLSON: Right? I mean, that was a public event —

BOBULINSKI: Oh, yes.

CARLSON: You can Google it.

BOBULINSKI: Well, you can go to Milken. They had to issue me — I didn’t — I wasn’t attending Milken. So they had to issue me special credentials. A whole team walked out into the valet of Tthe Beverly Hilton and walked me into that speech that he gave and sat me at the head table in front of everyone.

So this is more than checkable. I’m sure there’s photos or documentation and stuff like that.

CARLSON: Yes, the press corps doesn’t seem to be rushing to verify this.

PART TWO

CARLSON: Tell me about the conversation that you had with Joe Biden. What did — what did he say to you?

BOBULINSKI: You mean the morning after he spoke?

CARLSON: That’s right.

BOBULINSKI: It just — it was — there was 10 people running around getting him something to drink. And we were backstage in a cramped space. And he asked me to walk with him out to the car and he just asked, you know, “How I did,” and what I thought of his speech.

And I thought he did a great job on the speech. And obviously cancer is a very serious thing that we should all be working together to solve. I just lost a sister-in-law within the last two weeks, sadly, to cancer. And then he just sort of asked me to keep an eye on his son and his brother.

CARLSON: What, what do you think he meant by that?

BOBULINSKI: I think he was conscious of things. And you know, I can’t speak for him.

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: Maybe — I would love for him to go on record. You know, as I referenced earlier, I’m only sitting here because they have not — not only have they not gone on record, they’ve denied it and they’ve tarred my family name and a long history of serving this country — and have other congressmen out talking about Russian disinformation.

I held a top secret clearance from the NSA and the DOE. I served this country for four years in one of the most elite environments in the world, Naval Nuclear Power Training Command.

And to have a congressman out there speaking about Russian disinformation or Joe Biden at a — at a public debate referencing Russian disinformation, when he knows he sat face-to-face with me, that I was — traveled around the world with his son and his brother, to say that and associate that with my name is absolutely disgusting to me.

CARLSON: Have you, did you complain about that? I mean, to suggest that you were committing treason or a part of a foreign attack on our democracy, which is how they characterized it, I mean that’s such a serious and, I think, unfair charge —

BOBULINSKI: Yes.

CARLSON: Did you bring this up with them?

BOBULINSKI: Well, in a basic form, you’re exactly right. They are publicly accusing me of treason right now. Treating me like I’m insignificant or the 50 years of history that my family has served this country is insignificant.

And that’s why I’m sitting here having this — I assure you, this is the absolute last place I want to be right now and the last thing I want to be doing right now, but I feel like I have a patriotic duty to this country and every American citizen to go on record and define the facts for them and let them do their own work, let them decide how they view those facts or not.

But for the Biden family to deny these facts — and then not only deny them, they could’ve just said no comment, but they didn’t say no comment. They then brought in Russian disinformation and basically associated my name with that, which is absolutely disgusting to me, and I had to go on the record.

Last weekend, I was in Virginia. Sadly, my sister-in-law passed away at around 6:38 Saturday morning. That’s the wife of my brother who spent 28 years serving this country as a naval flight officer and just retired. So, you can imagine me dealing with that and the tragedy of that.

When I saw Adam Schiff go on record talking about Russian disinformation after this email had been posted online by the New York Post — and remember that email was to me from James Gilliar, right. It wasn’t — I wasn’t blind carboned or CC’d on that, it was to me stating that I was going to be the CEO of his enterprise.

I was at the end of my rope, and so I called Rob Walker and I told him that if that statement isn’t retracted by Congressman Schiff by midnight on Sunday, that I was going on record and I was disclosing all the facts to the American government, to the American citizens, and the world.

I was hoping the Biden’s would do the right thing or Schiff would retract his statement, but I could not allow another minute, another hour or day for my family’s name to be associated or muddied up around Russian disinformation.

So, even as I sit here today, I would ask the Biden family to come on record and stop using my name or associating it with Russian disinformation. It’s absolutely disgusting.

CARLSON: So this is Rob Walker, the representative of the Biden family. I believe his wife worked for the Biden family, apparently. So you said this to him, I won’t go public, I just want them to retract the accusation that I’m an instrument of Russian disinformation. What did he say?

BOBULINSKI: That’s correct. Rob was under a tremendous amount of stress.

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: Obviously he has a wife and a child, and he said, “Listen, let me make some calls, let me call George, who’s Hunter Biden’s lawyer, and see what I can do.” But he sort of presented it as if that’s going to be impossible for me to get done.

And I’m not naive; I know that’s not impossible to do. That’s a single phone call from Joe Biden to Adam Schiff saying, basically, go on record and retract your statement, you got over your skis.

And when I — I was up late that night, and when the statement wasn’t retracted come Monday morning, I was ready to go on record and what—how that record was, I was willing to go in front of any senator, any congressman, the Department of Justice, the FBI, or sit here with you, Tucker, and basically provide the facts to the American people and let them make their decision.

This isn’t a political focus of mine. People were accusing my family of treason after I served this country and defended this country.

CARLSON: So, the reason you wound up here in this interview, and I just want to affirm for our audience that I don’t think you had any desire to do this interview —

BOBULINSKI: Absolutely no desire.

CARLSON: —is because nobody else told your story. So were you surprised, given the trove of documents you have, given the credibility that I think is apparent that you have, that no other news organization took the time to unpack this story?

BOBULINSKI: Surprise is probably an understatement of the year — shocked — because it would be different if this was my word against Jim Biden, Hunter Biden, and Joe Biden.

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: Th at would be a very slippery slope, not something I would take the personal and family risk on it, but I’ve provided more documents and facts that validate times, meetings, who participated. That email to me on May 13th was generated by somebody else sent to me, it wasn’t me generating.

These text messages that I’ve provided are Hunter Biden in the first person Jim Biden in the first person, James Gilliar in the first person, Rob Walker in the first person. It’s not me generating the text messages, it’s them speaking. So, you can interview them, the FBI can interview them, our government can interview them.

But I was shocked that not only the media is not only discussing this, they’re going to the other extreme, they’re dismissing it as Russian disinformation. This country has heard enough about Russia. We went through three years of every day, Russia, Russia, Russia, it’s just absurd. The cold war is over.

CARLSON: And they’re saying it about your family?

BOBULINSKI: Yes.

CARLSON: The Biden family knew that you were going public with this. And you spoke to Rob Walker about it – again, the self-described Biden family representative — and Biden family, meaning Joe Biden as well — what was his response when you let him know that you were going public with this?

BOBULINSKI: Trying to coach me.

(LAUGHTER)

BOBULINSKI: Trying to sort of say, “Hey, we don’t want to do that, we don’t want press trucks out in front of our house. I’m going to have to move, I could lose my job,” and all of that — you know, I’m not trying to cause harm to anyone in this situation —

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: — let alone Rob Walker and his family, James Gilliar and his family.

But basically, Rob’s position was, “If you go on record with all these facts, you’ll bury all of us.”

CARLSON: What was your response to that?

BOBULINSKI: I was focused on pushing these guys to do the right thing, to demonstrate an ounce of integrity in front of the American people. They all know the facts; I lived the facts. And luckily for the American people, all the facts are extremely well documented.

I’m irrelevant in this discussion, so I can ride off, but the American people can read these texts, listen to the recording that you just played, read the legal documents that were executed in Delaware, and they can form their own conclusion. They don’t need me to form the conclusion for them.

CARLSON: Give us a sense of your contacts with Hunter Biden. I just — a lot of this is complex. There’s a lot that we’re not — and this is television so we’re not putting, you know, everything that we have on the screen because we can’t.

But for those who might suspect that you don’t — didn’t really have a lot of contact with Hunter Biden, give us a sense of some of the places where you had conversations with him and over what timeframe.

BOBULINSKI: So, obviously, as we already discussed throughout 2015 and 2016 while Joe was still the sitting vice president of the United States. These guys had been doing extensive work around the world in places like Oman Luxembourg, Romania, that I was being made aware of, but I obviously hadn’t come off the bench and agreed to be part of this.

CARLSON: I’m sorry, I’ve got to interrupt you there. Oman, Luxembourg, Romania.

BOBULINSKI: Correct.

CARLSON: So they don’t speak any of these languages, neither one of these guys has any record of success in business, neither one has a background in international business. Why would they be doing business in Oman, Luxembourg, and Romania, and Kazakhstan?

BOBULINSKI: Oh, because — because they have relationships and they have the Biden name that they’re able to set up meetings and get people to jump through hoops in an interest to garner favor with the sitting Vice President Joe Biden.

CARLSON: So that — so it sounds like Gilliar is a legitimate business guy. A—you know someone who’s — who’s fluent in the language of international business.

BOBULINSKI: Yes, yes, James Gilliar, you know, served his country. He’s British. He’s traveled around the world for decades. He’s a very low-profile individual. But he’s sharp and he’s as legitimate as they come.

CARLSON: Sounds it. But Hunter Biden and Jim Biden have a well-documented decades long record of business disasters. Did you get any sense that either one of these guys was qualified to be conducting this kind of business?

BOBULINSKI: The only qualification they had was the Biden name.

CARLSON: But they seem to have parlayed that into quite a few deals in quite a few countries. And I interrupted you. So give me — continue with where they were doing these deals.

BOBULINSKI: Yes. So you had asked the extent to my communication with Hunter Biden. So when I decided to come off the bench and entertain being the CEO of Sinohawk Holdings, obviously, I was brought up to speed on the work that they had been doing in Oman, Luxembourg, France, Romania, Kazakhstan, and stuff like that because that was all going to be integrated into Sinohawk Holdings.

And so you asked to the extent that I spent time with Hunter Biden. I personally was in Bucharest, Romania with Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, James Gilliar, Rob Walker. I was in Monaco for the, you know, annual grand prix there. I was supposed to sit with Hunter Biden.

I met him — I met on the patio of his hotel and I sat there and waited for two hours. And you can imagine how angry, and I was frustrated after sitting there for two hours waiting for him without a text, a phone call to let me know I can’t make it or I’m tied up.

And in a text that I think you guys were aware of and saw, the next day he aggressively comes back at me that he couldn’t attend that meeting that he himself set up.

I stepped away from family and friends on the yacht that I was on with my friends to go sit with him for a couple hours, and he’s effectively screaming in to the phone that he could not pick up a phone and text me, because he was with the Ukrainians, and Mykola the founder of Burisma — and that he was fighting for the only income he has on the Kazakhstan deal that apparently he negotiated. Now, I had no exposure to the Kazakhstan deal, I’m not aware of any of the particulars of the Kazakhstan deal, I just know for a fact there is a Kazakhstan deal because Hunter Biden, in first person, told me there was in the text that I think you guys have and you will show to the American people.

It’s not my job to determine what that deal is, I’ll leave that up to the FBI or the Senate and the Congress to figure that out.

CARLSON: I just want to restate this, you are not a grifter, you are not someone who’s selling access. You’re a legitimate business man who’s done deals in a lot of different countries.

So, I just want you to assess once more, is there anything about Hunter Biden’s personal experience, personal qualifications that would justify him doing a deal in Kazakhstan?

BOBULINSKI: Absolutely nothing. The only thing that he had was the Biden family name, and the fact that his father at one point obviously was the sitting vice president and potentially would run as a future president.

CARLSON: It sounds like a remarkably ambitious international business program they had running — he and his uncle.

BOBULINSKI: Extensive, extensive.

CARLSON: This is a small point, but I can’t get over it. So you saw a number of reporters say, again, in an effort to bat away your story, your testimony on this, that the chairman referred to in a bunch of these e-mails, was not Joe Biden.

It was in fact the government of China. When you see people refer to the chairman thinks this, the chairman thinks that — they’re talking about China, and not Joe Biden.

So I want to put up on the screen, here is a text message you received from Hunter Biden, to you. Hey Tony, I have an idea. In light of the fact that we are at an impasse of sorts and both James’ lawyers and my chairman gave an emphatic no, I think we should all meet in Romania on Tuesday next week. And so you’re hearing reporters say, that chairman was in fact the Chinese government.

Here you have Rob Walker responding to you — clearly there’s some confusion over this and he’s saying — I’ll put this on the screen now. When he said — when Hunter Biden said his chairman, he was talking about his dad.

BOBULINSKI: Correct. There’s two chairmen in this story. There’s Chairman Ye, who is the chairman of CEFC.

CARLSON: Yes.

BOBULINSKI: And that text from Hunter Biden, he was talking about the chairman CEFC. And what Hunter’s referencing there is he spoke with his father and his father is giving an emphatic no to the ask that I had, which was putting proper governance in place around Oneida Holdings.

CARLSON: So Joe Biden is vetoing your plan for putting stricter governance in the company. I mean — and it’s right here in the emails.

BOBULINSKI: Yes, Tucker, I want to be very careful in front of the American people. That is not me writing that. That is not me claiming that. That is Hunter Biden writing on his own phone, typing in that I spoke with my chairman, referencing his father. If the world thinks that that my chairman is not his father, then Hunter Biden would come forward and go on record and state to the world.

CARLSON: But you have the Biden family representative, Rob Walker, saying right here, May 19th, no, when he said his chairman, he was talking about his dad.

BOBULINSKI: Exactly.

PART THREE

CARLSON: Tell me about the money. So in the end the Chinese did send quite a bit of money.

BOBULINSKI: Correct.

CARLSON: Where did it go?

BOBULINSKI: So documents were all executed even after this back and forth. And Chinese CEFC Director Zang, who’s number three of the company worked directly for Chairman Ye, and the way it was presented to me as a very senior Chinese Communist Party member, was assuring me that $10 million was being sent to our bank account that was set up at JPMorgan Chase to basically fund operations and grow the business.

And that, of that $10 million, we were capitalizing the business. So $5 million of that $10 million was being loaned to Oneida Holdings as a non-recourse loan from CEFC, and the other $5 million was coming as CEFC as their capitalization of the business because we owned 50/50 in the partnership.

The Chinese and CEFC never viewed me — I’m insignificant and irrelevant in this discussion. To them it was always the Biden family. It wasn’t Hunter Biden, it wasn’t Jim Biden, it was the Biden family who’s obviously led and operated by Joe Biden.

And in a document that you guys have, and I think it’s been provided to the world, the Chinese reference that, because of their trust in the Biden family that Chairman Ye and Director Zang are excited about moving forward in this. And in that document, they reference loaning $5 million to the BD family.

CARLSON: Right.

BOBULINSKI: The BD family is the Biden family. And notice they didn’t say we’re loaning that money to Oneida Holdings or we’re loaning that money to Tony Bobulinski or we’re loaning that money to James Gilliar or Rob Walker. They, once again, not a document generated by me, a document generated by CEFC, that they’re loaning that money to the Biden family.

CARLSON: What are the implications of this going forward? If Joe Biden is elected president, which could very well happen, how does this constrain his ability to deal with China?

BOBULINSKI: Are you asking for my personal opinion?

CARLSON: I am. I’m asking for your opinion, as someone who’s worked with the Chinese.

BOBULINSKI: So, I think Joe Biden and the Biden family are compromised. Obviously, I’d reference that I held a Q clearance, you’re briefed on compromise and who you’re able to talk with and deal and do business with.

And I just don’t see, given the history here and the facts, how Joe can’t be influenced in some manner based on the history that they have here with CEFC and stuff like that. So as a citizen and an American taxpayer, I’m very, very concerned.

CARLSON: It seems at this point that there is so much documentation — and again, we have your documents, the one you retain, the texts and emails, and the legal documents.

But presumably, there are many others, because there are a lot of other people involved in this. Is it possible that this stuff just disappears and nobody covers it for the next four years if Biden is elected? I mean, it seems like there’s a lot of evidence out there.

BOBULINSKI: I think the American people should be demanding that this is investigated and I don’t know what the right party to do that is. Is that the DOJ, is that the FBI, is that Congress, is that the Senate? But there absolutely should be no scenario that this isn’t investigated.

And as you’ve said, I probably have purview into 10 percent, just picking a round number, of what was actually going on, and I would encourage the American people to go online and download Senator Johnson’s 87-page report after watching this, and read pages 65-87 and form your own conclusion.

What I’ve come forward with is a piece in that puzzle that Senator Johnson and Senator Grassley did not have. They didn’t have it because I hadn’t gone on record, and all this information and documentation was kept very, very tight.

You asked me if the information disappeared. I would expect that other parties have probably destroyed or gotten rid of information. I didn’t. I have every email, every text, every WhatsApp that was exchanged, and I’ve provided that to the authorities and here I am discussing it.

CA R L S O N: S o yo u learned from the Senate report that the Chinese sent a great deal of money, but it didn’t go where it was supposed to go, correct?

BOBULINSKI: Yes, that’s correct. So take the American people back to July of 2017. I was being told by Director Zang, who’s a senior executive at CEFC, that the $10 million was going to be funded in two tranches of $5 million and $5 million.

Once again, the way they were approaching that is $5 million was a loan to the Biden family, and $5 million was their contribution to capitalize Sinohawk Holdings.

That money didn’t come in June, it didn’t come in July, and I was in Europe traveling with friends and family, and I was frustrated because culturally there’s a tendency that, hey, it’s coming, it’s coming, and it wasn’t coming. So I was very frustrated.

But also in July, 2017, something that happened is, over July 4th weekend while we were celebrating our Independence Day, President Xi was in Moscow meeting Vladimir Putin on an official visit.

And in that meeting, and in that multiple days, Director Zang was in Moscow participating in that. And Rosneft or media in Russia had leaked to the press that they were entertaining selling 14 percent of Rosneft, which is the state-owned, U.S. sanctioned energy company in Russia to CEFC.

When I saw that leaked, you can imagine, once again, the clearance I held, the military background, I sort of pushed away from the table like, whoa, that’s — this is stair-stepping things at a level that, do I even want to be associated with or do I even want to be near?

Shortly after that information got out, I was told that Director Zang’s visa was denied. He could no longer get back into the U.S. for meetings or to, you know, bring his wife and his kids to go to school in New York and that it was denied multiple times.

Jim Biden confirms that in text. James Gilliar references it. Kevin — Dongwen Wen, who’s the individual that’s referenced in Senator Johnson’s Senate report, he went by Kevin — his legal name is Gongwen Dong, sorry.

And so I was sort of walking on eggshells. You know, what’s going on? You’re saying this money is going to be funded. It hasn’t come in yet. I’m sort of near the end of my rope here.

And then in September — easily validated — it’s officially announced that CEFC is — is buying 14 percent of Rosneft, once again, the state-owned energy company.

And so, at that point, I just sort of push away from the table. The money hadn’t been funded into — into Sinohawk. And I was having daily discussions with James Gilliar. You know, what’s going on here? You know, the Biden name, Russia, China, do — you know, I don’t want to be anywhere near this. I’ve got to understand all the moving pieces.

And so we went into the fall of 2017 — very well documented — when Patrick Ho, who’s an employee or an associate of CEFC, landed in New York he was detained by the U.S. government and put in jail for corruption — apparently for leaving shoe-boxes of cash to two African presidents.

And it started this downhill spiral of CEFC as a company. Remember, President Xi was traveling around the world under the One Belt One Road. That was their political approach, and CEFC was the capitalistic side of the Chinese government, doing things that they could do on the capitalist side that the government couldn’t get done.

It’s very well documented — the work that CEFC did in the Middle East, in Czechoslovakia, and Romania, Kazakhstan, in Georgia, all over the world.

When they announced that — that they were officially tendering for 14 percent of Rosneft, a deal valued at $9 billion, I sort of pushed away from the table. Like, OK, obviously that’s taking priority over this discussion and I just, sort of — you know, was watching things play out once they detained Patrick Ho.

I did reach out to Hunter Biden in October of 2017 asking him, hey, listen, they haven’t funded the $10 million, have you done something that I’m not aware of? Have you gone around us? Have you started a parallel discussion with Chairman Ye that I should be conscious of?

And in a variety of text messages that you’ve been provided, and I think the American people have been provided, he says, no, I didn’t go around you. But oh, by the way, I’m acting as the personal attorney to Chairman Ye.

Now, imagine being in my shoes, looking at my phone, reading this text message from Hunter Biden. I just spent six months all out-of-pocket myself, nobody was paying me. I was paying for my own travel, my own meals, my own cars, anything that was needed.

And Hunter Biden is now telling me that he’s meeting personally one on one with Chairman Ye in his $50 million penthouse in New York. And if he can’t meet him, he’s picking up the phone and calling him. But they only discuss things in-person.

You can imagine my anger and frustration there. Because then I’m like, oh, this has gotten slippery. You have gone around me. What’s going on here? And oh, by the way, Hunter, you’re acting as the personal attorney to Chairman Ye while they’re tendering for 14 percent of the Russian state-owned energy company, a deal valued at $9 billion, what am I missing here?

And he sort of just plays it off. And he said, I’m working on a bunch of other personal things and visas. And stuff like that, but doesn’t go into a lot of detail.

I’d love for you to ask him that. I’d love the American people to ask what those other special things were.

CARLSON: You’ve told your story in a very public way. What do you expect the consequences for you and your family will be?

BOBULINSKI: So, my focus right now is not the consequences on me. I’m actually trying to be selfless in this discussion.

I think the consequences our country faces—that average American voter that’s thinking about what presidential candidate they pick today, or have picked over the prior two weeks or in the future all the way up to the election, I’m doing this for them.

Not for my family, not for any money, I’m doing this out of a patriotic duty to our country based on my military background and my grandfather’s background.

So, other people can determine the facts and what matters and how they want to vote. But I had to go on record because they chose to, sort of, mar up my name. So I have a former SEAL team protecting my family. I’m not at home right now, and I’ll travel the next four years if I have to, I had to do this.

CARLSON: Are you worried?

BOBULINSKI: Of course I’m worried. I’ve gotten death threats, calls. Obviously, I sat with the FBI. They assured me I would more than be protected by them, when and if needed. But I think I’ll slowly become irrelevant in this discussion. Because the facts are so powerful and so necessary that hopefully I’ll just sort of go stage left.

And hopefully our government and the appropriate people, the Biden family, will go on record and basically provide facts to the American people.

CARLSON: Tony Bobulinski, thank you for talking with us. I appreciate it.

BOBULINSKI: Thank you, Tucker, for having me.

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Tucker Carlson (AP/Richard Drew)
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Tony Bobulinski (AP/Evan Vucci)
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Hunter Biden waits in October 2012 for the start of the his father’s, Vice President Joe Biden’s, debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky. (File Photo/AP/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
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Vice President-elect Joe Biden stands with son Hunter during a re-enactment of the Senate oath ceremony Jan. 6, 2009, in the Old Senate Chamber on Capitol Hill in Washington. (File Photo/AP/Charles Dharapak)
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Rob Walker (Courtesy of Little Rock Soirée)

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