Clinton, Sanders focus on liberalness

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders greet the audience Thursday evening before squaring off in a Democratic presidential primary debate hosted by MSNBC in Durham, N.H.
Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders greet the audience Thursday evening before squaring off in a Democratic presidential primary debate hosted by MSNBC in Durham, N.H.

DURHAM, N.H. -- Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders tangled in their first one-on-one debate Thursday night over how to achieve liberal goals such as health care for all and a better education system.

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AP

Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton wrangled Thursday over which of them is the most liberal candidate. Clinton said it’s “unfair” for Sanders to say she’s not progressive. Sanders said Clinton’s statements show that she’s a moderate.

Clinton dismissed Sanders' proposals, such as "single-payer" health care, as "just not achievable."

Sanders countered that Clinton was willing to settle for less than Americans deserve.

"I do not accept the belief that the United States of America can't do that," Sanders said of his plan for universal health care and of his efforts to take on "the rip-offs of the pharmaceutical industry."

Clinton insisted they both want the same thing, but "the disagreement is where do we start from and where do we end up."

The former secretary of state and the U.S. senator have been engaging in a battle over who can claim the party's liberal base.

"A progressive is someone who makes progress. That is what I intend to do," Clinton said in the debate broadcast by MSNBC from the University of New Hampshire in Durham.

Moderators had asked Clinton about Sanders' claims that she did not meet the modern definition of the word. Clinton responded by criticizing Sanders' positions on gun laws, which have been a rare place where Sanders is not at the left edge of Congress.

"I don't think it was particularly progressive to vote against the Brady bill five times," Clinton said, referring to the bill that instituted background checks for gun buyers. "We can go back and forth like this."

Sanders countered that Clinton's effectiveness would be limited because of her ties to the financial industry. Sanders pledged to change that.

"It's now Wall Street's time to help the middle class," Sanders said.

Clinton has sought to explain the money she has received in speaking fees from Wall Street firms -- including $675,000 from Goldman Sachs for three speeches -- and the millions more that the financial sector has given to her campaigns.

Sanders, for his part, suggested her loyalties were colored by a reliance on big corporate donors.

"Secretary Clinton does represent the establishment," he said. "I represent -- I hope -- ordinary Americans."

Clinton may say the right things, he suggested, but "one of the things we should do is not only talk the talk but walk the walk."

On Thursday, Clinton took on Sanders for his efforts to cast her as beholden to Wall Street and establishment donors.

"There is this attack that he is putting forth, which really comes down to, you know, anybody who ever took donations or speaking fees from any interest group has to be bought," Clinton said. "I just absolutely reject that, senator.

"You will not find that I ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation that I ever received," Clinton continued. "It's time to end the artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks."

Sanders also reiterated his disgust that some large multinational corporations like General Electric and Boeing have avoided paying U.S. taxes. He said if he's elected president, companies like that "are going to pay their fair share of taxes."

He said that while some companies are good corporate citizens, "there are many corporations who have turned their backs on the American worker."

Emphasizing her own vow to take on the financial sector, Clinton said she has industry titans nervous enough to bankroll attacks against her campaign.

"I have a record. I have stood firm, and I will be the person who prevents them from ever wrecking the economy again," she said, describing how she warned Wall Street firms before the 2008 recession that their speculative practices could hurt the economy.

In a moment of agreement, Clinton and Sanders said they do not want to see large numbers of U.S. ground troops return to the Middle East. They supported a limited role as providing assistance, through supplies, weapons and special forces -- but not a large ground force.

Clinton said sending ground troops "is off the table."

Sanders added that his goal would be keeping the U.S. from getting "sucked into never-ending perpetual warfare within the quagmire of Syria and Iraq."

"It must be Muslim troops on the ground that will destroy" the Islamic State extremist group, he said.

Tightening race

The race for the Democratic nomination intensified this week after Sanders held Clinton to a whisper-thin margin of victory in Iowa's leadoff caucuses. The candidates agreed to add four more debates to the primary season schedule, including Thursday's face-off in Durham.

In a sign of the tightening race, Clinton reported earlier in the day that her campaign had raised $15 million in January -- $5 million less than Sanders and the first time she's been outraised by her opponent. Her finance director called the numbers "a very loud wake-up call" in a fundraising email to supporters.

Sanders' $20 million in January came mostly from online donations. Overall in the campaign, he has focused on raising money from average Americans, receiving 3.5 million individual contributions averaging $27 apiece.

Thursday's debate is the last before Tuesday's first-in-the-nation primary in New Hampshire, and Sanders, a U.S. senator from neighboring Vermont, holds a big lead in the polls there.

Heading into the debate, Sanders was eager to lower expectations for his finish in New Hampshire, casting himself as an underdog against "the most powerful political organization in the country."

Sanders has spent most of the race highlighting Clinton's ties to Wall Street and her policy shifts on issues like the Iraq War and same-sex marriage.

"Sometimes it's easy to apologize for a bad vote 15 or 20 years later when the tide has changed," Sanders said at a rally in Rochester, N.H., hours before the debate. He was referring to Clinton's vote in favor of the Iraq War, which came in 2002 while she was a Democratic senator from New York. Clinton has apologized for that vote. Sanders, then in the House, voted against going to war. "It is a lot harder to stand up ... and cast the right vote. That's what leadership is about, not having to apologize for what's right."

Clinton, for her part, signaled her determination to at least narrow the gap before Tuesday's vote in the state where she defeated Barack Obama in 2008 before ultimately losing the nomination to him.

The two campaigns have even skirmished this week over why Sanders is doing so well in New Hampshire polls. His campaign accused Clinton's of insulting New Hampshire voters by suggesting they support the Vermont senator only because he's from a neighboring state.

Clinton's campaign also criticized Sanders' camp for what it said were misleading ads that suggest the senator received the endorsement of two newspapers that have not backed his bid for the White House. Sanders countered that the ads didn't say he'd been endorsed but merely passed along "nice" words that newspapers had written about him.

On a broader issue, Clinton offers herself to voters as "a progressive who gets things done," part of her pitch that she's the one with the practical skills to implement a progressive agenda.

Sanders' counter argument is that it will take a "political revolution" to achieve goals such as universal health care, a fairer tax system and an incorruptible campaign-finance system.

Asked this week if Clinton is a progressive, he said: "Some days, yes. Except when she announces that she is a proud moderate. Then I guess she is not a progressive."

Sanders added that it is hard to take on the establishment "when you become as dependent as she has through her super PAC and in other ways on Wall Street or drug company money."

Information for this article was contributed by Nancy Benac, Lisa Lerer and Scott Bauer of The Associated Press; by Jennifer Epstein, Arit John and Emily Greenhouse of Bloomberg News; by John Wagner, David A. Fahrenthold and Abby Phillip of The Washington Post.

A Section on 02/05/2016

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