A way out of the mess

Posted: October 6, 2013 at 3:22 a.m.

House Speaker John Boehner’s suggestion that he’s determined to avoid a federal debt default, and that he’ll pass a measure to that effect with Democratic votes, if necessary, gives both sides in the great Washington standoff a possible way out. To make it work, each will have to give a little as well as take a little. It won’t be elegant, but the prospect of lifting the threat of a ruinous default—preferably once and for all—makes that a secondary consideration.

This story is only available from our archives.

Editorial, Pages 84 on 10/06/2013

maybe it is time to listen to the people not the lobbyists?
maybe the baby boomers have to rise again?
some parades and pickets?
it is the only generation that stood up for a change?

Posted by: ladyLiberty

October 6, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

We know categorically who planned and created this crisis. I'll provide seven lines of evidence:

1) They ran on shutting the government down:
"Georgia Congressman Lynn Westmoreland campaigned during the height of the Tea Party frenzy in 2010:
“We need to make sure you are going to be with us when we shut down the government, which we will do if we win the majority this year,” Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, September 2010.
Elected leaders can’t campaign on a promise to shut down the government in their radical, right-wing home districts and then try to place the blame on anyone else."

2) Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) sharply criticized his fellow House Republicans saying it's "moronic" for them to let the government shut down over their opposition to Obamacare and calling them "lemmings with suicide vests." “They have to be more than just a lemming," he said. "Because jumping to your death is not enough."

3) "Republicans have wanted a government shutdown since before President Obama took office, Michele Bachmann said she was “very excited” about the prospect and “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.” http://tinyurl.com/nhnxsn6

4) "We're not going to be disrespected," conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., added. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is." http://tinyurl.com/mpzoalx

5) "House Republican Admits To Donors: GOP Had To Shut Down The Government To Please The Tea Party"
“Listen,” Walden told them, “We have to do this because of the Tea Party. If we don’t, these guys are going to get primaried and they are going to lose their primary.” http://tinyurl.com/o5ckjdr

6) Steve Womack admitted this is a republican caused "hostage" situation and that it was a "political suicide" strategy that may give the house to the Demos. He said in his congressional blog in September:
"Even though this law is a train wreck, attaching legislation such as H.R. 2682 to a continuing resolution (CR) is not the way to go about dismantling the law. "Why? "Because doing so would require the House to take hostage the rest of the government and require us to shoot it." http://womack.house.gov/news/document...

7) This newspaper reported his August prediction that this would be a suicide strategy for the republicans:
"[Steve Womack] fended off the idea the GOP should force a government shutdown unless there was agreement to "defund" Obamacare.
Doing that, he said, would amount to "political suicide" for Republicans that could lead voters to return control of both houses of Congress to the Democrats."

These are admissions of what everyone knows: this is a republican Tea Party action/strategy to take a last, futile swing at the Affordable Care Act. It's not going to work.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

October 6, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

The Republicans in the house are doing what this government was set up to do, otherwise, we would have a dictatorship, which Obama seems to think he is. Many are with them because negotiations could be made on spending cuts - which we direly need. Any other president would be sitting down every day until an agreement was made. No, he is out playing golf; he has no intention to listen to ANYTHING. His way or no way even when the majority of people do not want his way.

I do believe we will default (I pray not), but it should completely lie on his shoulders.
If you remember, our credit rating was downgraded last year because we would not do anything about our excessive spending.

Posted by: mycent

October 6, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I am sorry myc, you absolutely have no earthly idea of what you are talking about, your facts are wrong, your understanding of the system is wrong, your understanding of the Constitution is wrong, your understanding of a Dictatorship is wrong, your understanding of how and why the government is set up is wrong,your understanding of a budget and a budget process is wrong, your opinion of the President is really messed up and your way of looking at life is depressing.


Posted by: rummy

October 6, 2013 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The grumpy Tomato is right. When Mycent isn't completely wrong from the sheer weight of her colossal ignorance, she has to be simply lying.

But she does have this secret power at her disposal:
Myc: "I do believe we will default (I pray not),...">>

I wish the Teabaggers would stop actively sabotaging our government for the purpose of keeping people from getting healthcare, and instead rely upon this secret magic "power of prayer." Because the power of prayer is actually quite well known, and right up there with the "power of standing on one foot."

Nothing fails like prayer. http://www.skepdic.com/prayer.html

"Faith is an absolutely marvelous tool. With faith there is no question too big for even the smallest mind." --Rev. Donald Morgan (b. 1933)

Posted by: fayfreethinker

October 6, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Disgruntled (Can't you think of a more positive name?) You call me depressing. Sometimes, reality is depressing, but I am actually a happy, fun loving person. My husband, of almost 49 years, likes me, so that says something.

I just am concerned about our country. To me it is just common sense that all should grasp. Yes, not like some, I do believe in God and I know the last page of the story and it is a great ending. By the way, God loves you too. I think even FFT, though, I don't understand why.

Posted by: mycent

October 6, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Keep up the positive attitude, mycent.

Posted by: Tankersley101

October 6, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

It is challenging sometimes. Thanks.

Posted by: mycent

October 6, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

RE "It is challenging sometimes."
Oh, now-- it can't be that hard for you. In your America, ignorance is bliss.

By the way: your news source screwed up again:
"Fox News fails, reports fake story about Obama funding Muslim museum"

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." --Thomas Gray

"Fox Falls For Fake Occupy Protester Quote From 'Satire' Piece"

"Fox News Falls For Fake Story About Los Angeles Ordering 10,000 Jetpacks (Updated)"

"'[G]ullible' Fox & Friends escape lawsuit for repeating yet another false news story"

" Too good to check: RW blogs again snared by satire"

"Laughing hysterically, Fox News media criticism show repeats fake HBO story that Fox apologized for starting"


Posted by: AlphaCat

October 6, 2013 at 11:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I kinda liked the Avatar The MadTomato but then I was assailed again by the mad potato. He said I was disgruntled when he was yapping about someone I don't even know. So I changed it just for him, I hope he appreciates the sacrifice I made just for him. I promise I will try not to be so harsh on you in the future, but when it comes to the idiot known as TheMadPotato it will be open season.

Potato has a love/hate relationship with me, that is he loves to hate me. Potato is a old has been Springdale official who has been a part of the old political machine in Springdale and hasn't been able to move forward and break free from the old gang. Most of the time he hasn't a clue and all he can do is yell and scream, so sad.

Potato goes on and on about who he thinks I am, well I got news for him he has missed the boat, he has no idea who I am, fortunately I just happen to meet this person and I advised him of all the horrible things potato has said about him. I gave this person a copy of all of his comments. The person wash't happy and said he was going to his attorney and put a stop to it, won't that be a mess. I have complained to the News and they don't seem to care if potato violates their comment policy, so we will see where it goes. I am going to give the News time to do what is right, if nothing is done I will expose potato for what he is.

Posted by: rummy

October 7, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Now I see. Good luck and thanks. We can disagree, as I'm sure we still will at times.

Alpha- You are obsessed with Fox. What I said had nothing to do with FOX.

Posted by: mycent

October 7, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

a way out?
how about a vote? I understand there are enough now that will pass a clean vote. but Boehner will not allow it!! why? because he wants the president of the us to call him personally and have a back room
clandestine meeting!
is this democracy.

allow the house to vote openly..have open discussions.
I think the speaker and eric cantor should be arrested for stopping a vote and obstructing the democratic process!

I really enjoy the links and thoughts from fayfreethinker, and alpha cat.
thank you
sometimes the links are in the archives tho.

Posted by: ladyLiberty

October 7, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Line of evidence #8, showing this was a republican job. This in addition to the seven examples above:

8) Rep. Peter King: GOP Shutdown Strategy 'Doomed to Failure'
The budget strategy led by Republican Sen. Ted Cruz to defund Obamacare was destined for failure, and the events that unfolded in Congress last week prove it, New York Rep. Peter King said on "Fox News Sunday."
"If we wanted to defund something, we should repeal it," King said. "This was a strategy doomed to failure, and Ted Cruz has now walked away from it. We are the ones who shut this government down."

Posted by: fayfreethinker

October 7, 2013 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

RE "What I said had nothing to do with FOX."
Everything you say has something to do with Faux News. They sell ignorance, misinformation and lies, and you buy them wholesale.

I guess that's what makes you a "Top Commenter" at Fox News Insider. Congratulations.

Posted by: AlphaCat

October 7, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The Republicans in the house are doing what this government was set up to do, otherwise, we would have a dictatorship, which Obama seems to think he is. Many are with them because negotiations could be made on spending cuts - which we direly need. Any other president would be sitting down every day until an agreement was made. No, he is out playing golf; he has no intention to listen to ANYTHING. His way or no way even when the majority of people do not want his way.

I do believe we will default (I pray not), but it should completely lie on his shoulders.
If you remember, our credit rating was downgraded last year because we would not do anything about our excessive spending.

Posted by: mycentworth

What is it exactly you think they are doing that they should be doing? They have voted 43 times to repeal the PPACA. Once was enough. To have anything the House passes, it also has to pass the Senate and the President has to sign it. They don't get their repeal until their bill makes the Senate and the President happy, also.

We don't have a dictatorship, because Obama only gets to sign things into law. All those things that he does, that Republicans claim he is making laws all by himself are just more misinformation from Republicans. If he was really doing something wrong, they would be in court in a minute. I bet you haven't seen them take Obama to court over them, have you.

The administration can make decisions about how to administer the government, that is their job, and why they call that branch of government, the administration.

He is willing to negotiate. The Republicans keep leaving off the part that he says he will not negotiate over keeping the government open or raising the debt ceiling. They just say he will no negotiate. They are being misleading. And you believe the people that are misleading the public.

Posted by: User13

October 7, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Not that it matters, Alpha, but just to set the record straight, I am not a "top commenter" for Fox News Insider (I wish I were). You have your info mixed up. I used to post on Springfield News leader. Everyone, almost, is a top commenter with them.

It is true about our credit rating in danger of dropping again because of our spending, like it did last year, even when we raised the debt limit.

EC - I know how the government works. I think you are misleading.

Posted by: mycent

October 7, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

RE "I am not a "top commenter" for Fox News Insider (I wish I were)."
I just checked. There you are-- blue star, "Top Commenter" and everything. Wish granted.
However, the designation is not clear as to whether you are a Top Commenter due to the quantity of your posts or to the way you lap up their slops.

Posted by: AlphaCat

October 7, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

ECS: "The Republicans keep [saying] he will no[t] negotiate.">>

Since is this one of their favorite talking points right now, let's look at the historical context here:

"...since President Reagan, Congress has approved 45 debt-ceiling increases. How many of them were tied to budget deals? Seven. In other words, over the last several decades, 38 out of 45 debt-ceiling increases were not part of debt-reduction agreements (or any other policymaking measures).
Indeed, we should highlight an inconvenient detail: many leading Republican members of Congress, including a cast of characters that includes John Boehner, Eric Cantor, and Mitch McConnell, have each voted for clean debt-ceiling increases unrelated to budget deals.
[Second...], while Boehner desperately hopes you have a short memory, his references to the 1980s and 1990s overlooks the fact that neither party ever held the debt-ceiling hostage before. Before 2011, the notion of American policymakers threatening to crash the economy on purpose unless their demands were met was considered so hopelessly insane that neither party dared go that far.
Boehner wants to talk about the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton eras? That's a great idea -- let's talk about the fact that Republicans of these eras were open to concessions as part of budget compromises, and never once said they were prepared to trash the full faith and credit of the United States on purpose unless they got their way."

Republicans come in three flavors these days it seems: Corporate shills, Religious fanatics, and Freedom Fiends who want to protect your freedom to be poor enough to sleep under a bridge. (Alan Grayson)


Posted by: fayfreethinker

October 7, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

You know sometimes I will watch Fox News when I need a good laugh, they never fail me. Now mind you I don't watch it very long because those are minures lost and you can never get them back, not to mention the number of Televisions I have had to replace because I threw something at it when Fox News makes one of their many outlandish gaffes, which is about all they do. I will say this the ladies they employ are pleasant to look at, I can't say as much for the men.

The things they say are just plain crazy. The best yet is when one of their news guest said, if you sign up for The Affordable Health Care Act they will put a computer chip in your shoulder so you can be monitored. I'm telling you Saturday Night Live can do no better. I have noticed lately even these guy's have a hard time finding something good to say about the Republicans and the nuts in the Tea Party.

On second thought some of the crazy crap TheMadPotato spouts reminds me of Fox News, but of course the potato watches Fox News and Listens to nuts like the Drugster Rush, Beck, Rove, ORiley, Romney, Mc Cain, Cruz, Paul, and such.

The potato should spend more time sweeping the floor than listening to these crazies. It has had a effect on him, he beginning to sound DISGRUNTLED.



Posted by: rummy

October 8, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"Michele Bachmann's Bible is actually just Revelation, Golden Calf & 2 lines of Leviticus duct-taped to a Left Behind book." --John Fugelsang

Posted by: fayfreethinker

October 8, 2013 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )