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Petitions to leave union filed from several states

Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.

From states across the country, Americans have filed petitions on the White House website seeking to secede from the union and form new state governments.

While most of the petitions come from states that supported Republican Mitt Romney in last week’s election, a few swing states and even the deep-blue Northeast are represented.

Petitions have been filed for Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

“We petition the Obama Administration to peacefully grant the State of Alabama to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government,” reads the Alabama petition. Most of the petitions that have been filed so far cite the Declaration of Independence, which states in part: “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government.”

Most of the petitions have a few thousand signatures; many signers appear to be from other states. Under the “We the People” program, launched last year, the White House will respond to any petition that receives 25,000 or more signatures within 30 days.

Anyone over age 13 can create a petition. Previous popular petitions demanded the White House beer recipe (granted) and the legalization of marijuana (denied).

The petitions from Louisiana and Texas are approaching the threshold for a response. They were the first two states represented, followed by Alabama.

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I wonder if our president is getting the hint that out of 50 states 30 do not want him to be leader anymore. Just too bad the electorial votes are killing this country to make it unfair voting about the most important leader we all vote for. They should do away with this just as bad as they need to get a different president. I didn't vote for him and our state majority didn't want him either. Yet the states with the most minorities had the most electorial votes that over turned what the majority of the citizens want in the United States. WOW . guess it will be the north and south devided again . What has one man done to this country??

Posted by: oldrustynut

November 13, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

RE "I wonder if our president is getting the hint that out of 50 states 30 do not want him to be leader anymore."
A bunch of secession petitions are not really much of a hint, compared to the majority of the popular vote and a majority in the Electoral College. Get back to us when the secession petitions have more than sixty-five million signatures.

RE "What has one man done to this country??"
Whatever you think it is, he's had a lot of help from right-wing nut jobs.

Posted by: AlphaCat

November 13, 2012 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Nut jobs do not populate only one political party, nor right of left. Each has just as many.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 13, 2012 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Oldrust: "...of 50 states 30 do not want him to be leader anymore.">>

Let's see, 62.2 million people just voted *for* him and another 93 million are so fat and happy or just outright pleased with him that they didn't even bother to get up and vote, yet, because a couple tens of thousands of wingnuts have scribbled an X on one of these silly meaningless petitions, this means "30 states" don't want the president they just duly elected? Good grief, I don't even know how to make fun of that one.

Old: "...the electorial votes are killing this country...">>

Besides winning the electoral vote handily, Obama also won the popular vote by 3.37 million votes. And he got more votes than Bush got in either one of his elections.
http://www.latinospost.com/articles/6...

O: "our state majority didn't want him either.">>

That's been known to happen on occasion. Tough noogies.

O: "states with the most minorities... over turned what the majority of the citizens want...">>

The majority clearly wanted Obama, and clearly didn't want your guy. Your republicans have lost the popular vote in five of the last six elections. And incidentally, if your guys hadn't gerrymandered their way in, they would have lost the House too. More people voted for Demo's for Congress than for Republicans for Congress.

O: "What has one man done to this country?">>

Brought out the racists apparently (not speaking of you of course).

Bonus: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

And: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 13, 2012 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

See

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 13, 2012 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

Mark 3:25 (NIV)

Now, that being quoted, some greviences needed to be addressed, not mocked. The election is over. The government is about all Americans, not just those that look to be supercilious to those that disagree with their ultra Liberalism.

And for those that want to refer to Southern States as the "Slave States", maybe you should look and see you have some Copperheads among you and your Northern companions, as New York was on the list of states having petions filed.

Of course people want to talk about racism. Yep, just like back in 2008 when a bunch of folks were walking around wearing shirts in public and waving banners only the Black Panthers could be proud of after the election results came out.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 13, 2012 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank: "Of course people want to talk about racism.">>

Oh, I don't know that they want to, but nevertheless, there it is, tromping around in the living room like an elephant. Speaking of that:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

I rarely ever speak about race, racism or race issues (like Colbert, I can't see color when it comes to people) but I do find this fact interesting:

"[The], polling firm Public Policy Polling (PPP) revealed that 29 percent of likely GOP voters surveyed in Mississippi believe that interracial marriage should be illegal."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03...

That means, nearly 1/3 of GOP voters in the south think Obama's mother should have went to jail for the interracial infraction of being with a black man. And that is not a *then* fact (circa '60's), that's a *now* fact.

Isn't that interesting? I think that's interesting, and a little amazing. Seems there are some folks who still have some evolving to do on the race issue.

Also useful, here's what the nice big blue USA looks like when the electoral map is resized to represent the population of each state:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

Nice.

D.
----------------
Interesting to see how education divides up too: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

So it turns out, Karl Rove was right about something after all:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 13, 2012 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

FFT,

I am not suprised by your posts. Being a "red" state doesn't equal being a racists state. And there is a whole bunch of racism in your beloved "blue" states. Why do you even live in the South anyway or the United States for that matter? I'm sure Maddow is proud the way you race bait. What's next, the so-called war on women?

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 13, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>What's next, the so-called war on women?

We so hope you keep that up. Really. You needn't label it anything. Women under 50 in this nation need no more labels on what Rs have going.
Just listen to the rhetoric.
Vaginal ultra sound probes,
Waiting periods
ban birth control payments
ban morning after pills.

If a group of women got together and decided which men could get vasectomies and erectile boosters, when and how often they could get them,
who should be allowed to pay for it then the playing field would be a bit more even.

But you're so right on, there's no War on Women.
.

Posted by: cdawg

November 13, 2012 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank, who consistently runs from addressing questions put to him, still likes to ask questions and probably expects the courtesy of an answer. Okay.

Tnk: "Why do you even live in the South anyway...">>

I like the weather, and I like to help out when I can. A "political missionary," serving "where the need is great," as they say. It seems to be working. Every president I have voted for has won and the US took a great step toward the good last Tuesday.

It was a "landslide" as some of your conservatives like to put it: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

Fortunately I saw it coming and chose 12 categories to invest in with the good president over at Intrade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrade

If I may toot my horn a little, each of the 12 categories I chose, won. The only thing more fun than helping you and your conservative friends out on matters of fact, is taking money from conservatives when they actually put their money where their mouth is on their faith based and entirely wrong headed political beliefs.

Turns out there really is something to that data!

D.
--------------
I like how GW Bush's speech writer addresses this:

"I believe the Republican Party is a party of followership. The problem with the Republican leaders is that they're cowards.... The real locus of the problem is the Republican activist base and the Republican donor base. They went apocalyptic over the past four years. And that was exploited by a lot of people in the conservative world. I won't soon forget the lupine smile that played over the head of a major conservative institution when he told me that our donors think the apocalypse has arrived.

Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex... I'll say it again ... the conservative followership has been fleeced, exploited and lied to by the Conservative Entertainment Complex. Because the followers, the donors and the activists are so mistaken about the nature of the problems the country faces the nature--I mean, it's just a simple question. I went to Tea Party rallies and I would ask this question: "have taxes gone up or down in the past four years?" They could not answer that question correctly. Now it's true that taxes will go up if the President is re-elected. That's why we're Republicans. But you have to know that taxes have not gone up in the past. And "do we spend a trillion dollars on welfare?" Is that true or false? It is false. But it is almost universally believed."
--David Frum, adviser and speechwriter to GW Bush.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 13, 2012 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Cdawg: "You needn't label it anything. Women under 50 in this nation need no more labels on what Rs have going.">>

Maybe it would go down a little better if they could hear directly from a close GW Bush associate and adviser, like Karen Hughes:

"And if another Republican man says anything about rape other than it is a horrific, violent crime, I want to personally cut out his tongue," she wrote.
"The college-age daughters of many of my friends voted for Obama because they were completely turned off by Neanderthal comments like the suggestion of 'legitimate rape.'"
--Karen Hughes, longtime friend and adviser to GW Bush

Pic here: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

D.
------------------
"A simple man believes every word he hears; a clever man understands the need for proof."
--Proverbs 14:15 (NEB)

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 13, 2012 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The people have spoken .. accept it

Posted by: Apbacker

November 14, 2012 at 5:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

It's never over till it;s over--Yogi Berra

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 14, 2012 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

FFT,

I guess you just don't vote when a Bush or Reagan is set to win then. Your choice of betting websites linked to your so often cited Wikipedia shows how much you care about the US. You're a missionary alright. God loves you.

APbacker,

RE-

"The people have spoken .. accept it"

The same can be said to the Liberal mobs. Have a gander at the Congressional outcomes. Don't you just love check and balances?

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 14, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tnk: "Your choice of betting websites...">>

I like to think of it as an "exchange." Conservatives buy stock in their ideas based upon wishful thinking, and I buy stock in ideas based upon objective data, reality and facts, that sort of thing. Then at the end the money gets "exchanged" from them, to me. I actually had a conversation with a fellow who had $40,000 invested in Romney. Another fellow had $25,000 on him to win (and various states as well). They lost it all. And these guys were talking tough and blowing and going just like wingers around here. The difference is, the put their money where their mouth was. And then the universe itself stepped forward to provide a very real correction to them, and in a way a conservative understands best: their pocket book. Talk about a Truth stick of No Mercy!

Tnk: "linked to your so often cited Wikipedia">>

I provided that as a courtesy so you could learn about Intrade. You really ought to get over your obsession with smearing sources.

Tnk: "...shows how much you care about the US.">>

Dear Tank, we're so free over here that the freedom of betting on free US elections in the free US is not freely allowed, even in the freedom of Nevada. Nice try though.

Freedom!

Tnk: "God loves you.">>

Not as much as I do. Freedom!

Enjoy: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

D.
---------------
"To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition." --Woody Allen

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 14, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

FFT,

It is easy for you to talk about hitting people in the pocketbook. After all, Liberals are always out to spend other people's hard earned money. The same can be said about Conservatives sending money in the form of subsidies to big businesses though.

I knew of Intrade long before meeting the likes of you. You're not really for America, you are for ultra-Liberal, anti-God Cosmopolitanism. God still loves you.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-s6Zrk8TOoXw...

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 14, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

So, Tank, cosmopolitanism is the enemy.
And what is that?
"free from local, provincial, or national ideas, prejudices, or attachments; at home all over the world. " (online dictionary)
"Cosmopolitanism can be traced back to Diogenes of Sinope (c. 412 B.C) ...in Ancient Greece. Of Diogenes it is said: "Asked where he came from, he answered: 'I am a citizen of the world (kosmopolitês)." (Wikipedia)
"a wide variety of important views in moral and socio-political philosophy. ....the idea that all human beings, regardless of their political affiliation, do (or at least can) belong to a single community, and that this community should be cultivated. Different versions of cosmopolitanism envision this community in different ways, some focusing on political institutions, others on moral norms or relationships, and still others focusing on shared markets or forms of cultural expression." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cos...

Posted by: Coralie

November 14, 2012 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Some famous cosmopolitans since Diogenes include philosophers such as Erasmus and Kant, and American Founders such as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine.
Institutions such as the International Red Cross and the Geneva Conventions are based on cosmopolitanism.
And watch out when making war on abstract nouns! Adam Smith and free trade are considered cosmopolitan, while Marx and Engels were agin the idea. According to the Communist Manifesto (1848) "The bourgeoisie has through its exploitation of the world market given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country..." (Chapter 1)

Posted by: Coralie

November 14, 2012 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Coralie,

I qualified exactly what kind of Cosmopolitanism I meant.

Respectfully,

Tank

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 14, 2012 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>> Your choice of betting websites linked to your so often cited Wikipedia shows how much you care about the US.<<

Betting websites! Now that's a new word for markets!
All along I thought Tank was a free-market sorta fella.

Who knew that investing in outcomes, e.g., corn, oats , pork bellies, gold, POTUS winners, interest rates was nothing more than "betting."

Tank is redefining America's open markets as "betting." Better not mention that to Republican bidness men at the local Baptist church.

My old friend Ed, a used car dealer, always said,
"Cash talks and BS walks."

The IEM is an online futures market where contract payoffs are based on real-world events such as political outcomes, companies' earnings per share (EPS), and stock price returns. The market is operated by University of Iowa Henry B. Tippie College of Business faculty as an educational and research project.

http://tippie.uiowa.edu/iem/

Btw, it PAYS to be "cosmopolitan." Just ask some top execs at WalMart. Backward, homeboy attitudes never work in our global business climate. They must grasp values, laws and societal structures of many diverse cultures and nations.

And speaking of Americanism, Mittens sure loved him some foreign banks but he "believed" in America and outsourced production to China.
Believe!
.

Posted by: cdawg

November 14, 2012 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"The Confederacy of Takers

"Let those poor red states secede.

"Red states receive, on average, far more from the federal government in expenditures than they pay in taxes. The balance is the opposite in blue states. The secession petitions, therefore, give the opportunity to create what would be, in a fiscal sense, a far more perfect union.

Among those states with large numbers of petitioners asking out: Louisiana (more than 28,000 signatures at midday Tuesday), which gets about $1.45 in federal largess for every $1 it pays in taxes; Alabama (more than 20,000 signatures), which takes $1.71 for every $1 it puts in; South Carolina (26,000), which takes $1.38 for its dollar; and Missouri (22,000), which takes $1.29.."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinion...

Posted by: cdawg

November 14, 2012 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

To the intelligent man or woman, life appears infinitely mysterious. But the stupid have an answer for every question.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 14, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Why are people conveniently overlooking the petitions that came out of the Northeast. Oh yeah, because it is convenient... in a Keith Olberman sense.

I am not redefining anything about American markets either. I am pointing out that certain folks make a mockery out of our election process with wagers and they don't give a damn about America.

Those that would label Conservatives as having "backwards homeboy attitudes" stink of elitism.

You want to talk about takers from "red" states... let's look at all those welfare Caddies rolling around in the hood or those folks using a rigged barter system w/ EBT cards to buy booze and drugs while their children are left hungry.

I do not support the secession movement and never did support Governor Romney, but a bunch of people are angry and have complaints that need to be addressed. The government is for all Americans, not just the blue or red portions.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 14, 2012 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank _you couldn't have said it any better.

Posted by: oldrustynut

November 14, 2012 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank_I couldn't have said it any better.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 14, 2012 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tnk: "easy... to talk about hitting people in the pocketbook.">>

As usual you misunderstand. I referred specifically to people voluntarily, out of their own stupidity, choosing to transfer money into my account by basing their beliefs about your conservative leaders on wishful thinking rather than data and evidence. It's a beautiful thing. So please, feel free to follow the example of your conservative friends and put your money where your mouth is.

Tnk: "Liberals are always out to... [blah blah blah]">>

As usual, you make vague and broad assertions, but you don't bother to back anything up with substance. That's a bad habit.

Tnk: "You're not really for America,">>

Of course I am. That's why I am always stepping forward to correct your conservative friends when they say false things and bad things about your boss. And they do it a lot.

Tnk: "you are for ultra-Liberal,...">>

Let's unpack your attempt at an insult here:

"liberal: Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded” --American Heritage

So I'm "ultra" that? Okay. You got me. Thanks for the compliment.

Tnk: "anti-God Cosmopolitanism.">>

Coralie beautifully unpacked your cosmopolitan confusion, but Anti-God? You really should stop confusing the act of telling the truth about a theological matter with being "anti-God." And perhaps it wouldn't be too much to ask that you stop bearing false witness against me while you're at it (Matt 19:18). I've posted perhaps a couple thousand posts on this form and they are all easily accessible under my comments. Let's see if you can get off of your butt, put on your big boy pants and for once support a smear with some substance.

Tnk: "God still loves you.">>

Isn't it wonderful how people not only pretend to know all about what (and who) their God likes and dislikes, but they also presume to even know what it is thinking. Amazing.

D.
-------------
“The instruments and methods of the fraudulent and greedy [for gain] are evil; he devises wicked devices to ruin the poor and the lowly with lying words, even when the plea of the needy is just and right. But the noble, openhearted, and liberal man devises noble things; and he stands for what is noble, openhearted, and generous.” --Isaiah 32:7-8 AMP

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 14, 2012 at 7:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tnk: "...people conveniently overlooking the petitions that came out of the Northeast.">>

Who did that? It's a given that any state with millions of people is necessarily going to have at least a small constituent of pure knuckleheads, and it doesn't matter how far north they are. You are the one consistently making the assumption (ecological fallacy I think) that because a state has more of these knuckleheads than another that it necessarily impunes the entire state. I would never say that. Knuckleheads must answer for themselves.

Tnk: "certain folks make a mockery out of our election process with wagers...">>

How on earth does it make a mockery of elections to take money from conservatives who have the courage to back up their convictions with cash? Your claim makes no sense.

Tnk "they don't give a damn about America.">>

I think people show a lack of caring about America when they find it necessary to constantly tell lies about it. You know, what GW Bush's speechwriter called your "conservative entertainment complex" that so consistently misinforms your Tea Party crowd. The same group of info-tainers that taught you the silly tactic of smearing sources and running rather than actually responding to information.

Tnk: "Those that would label Conservatives...">>

I like how Tank considers conservatives such a hallowed institution that he finds it necessary to capitalize the word. Awesome.

Tnk "as having "backwards homeboy attitudes" stink of elitism.">>

At least he didn't call them hillbillies. That would be, as you once said: "racist."

Tnk "look at all those welfare Caddies rolling around...">>

This smear is so old it actually goes back to a time when the Cadillac was a fancy car! (Incidentally, you can thank your boss that the maker of that automobile is still in business).

D.
---------------
Some ankle biter notes: "Tank_I couldn't have said it any better."

Unfortunately, I suspect that is actually true.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 14, 2012 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Who lying? False witness? This coming from the guy that goes on TV and endorses his anti-God billboard on the interstate? Come on now, FFT.

Also, remember how much your Liberal friends say and still "say false things and bad things" about my former boss? I am not arguing religion with you, but I do find it interesting that you call people hypocrites and then find passages from the Bible to put into context that suits your needs. God still loves you.

America belongs to all Americans, not just the ones that agree with your views.

RE-

"This smear is so old it actually goes back to a time when the Cadillac was a fancy car!"

Maybe you should leave your goat farm more often and see some projects crawling with such things.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 14, 2012 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tnk: " False witness? This coming from the guy that...">>

Still ducking and running and making claims you can't back up. Again:

Perhaps it wouldn't be too much to ask that you stop bearing false witness against me (Matt 19:18). I've posted perhaps a couple thousand posts on this form and they are all easily accessible under my comments. Let's see if you can get off of your bottom, put on your big boy pants and for once support a smear with some substance.

I dare ya.

D.
---------------
Photo of the billboard in question: http://fayfreethinkers.com/images/nwa...

Notice the offensive seven words it contained. The horror!

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 14, 2012 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>You want to talk about takers from "red" states... let's look at all those welfare Caddies rolling around in the hood or those folks using a rigged barter system w/ EBT cards to buy booze and drugs while their children are left hungry.<<

Yeah. Let's look at it. What studies or findings do you have to show us?

.

Posted by: cdawg

November 14, 2012 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>Those that would label Conservatives as having "backwards homeboy attitudes" stink of elitism.<<

There you go again. Making up stuff. No one labeled "Conservatives" as such. I remarked that "cosmopolitan" people make more money because they have a better grip on global affairs.

Investing in outcome markets is about as American as cherry trees and Wall Street. It's a market, a free market in preferences and anticipated outcomes. Don't be a sore loser. It's simply not profitable.
.

Posted by: cdawg

November 14, 2012 at 10:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cdawg,

You obviuosly don't get out much either. You care so much abou all the welfare recipients, why don't you get out and see some. Some people need wefare more than others. There is no doubting that. Who is a sore loser? I sure didn't vote for Gov. Romney. All the betting talk surrounding the last election is making a mockery of the institution.

FFT,

I am not smearing anything. You are an aetheists and work to spread you beliefs or lack thereof. There is no "smear" there.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 15, 2012 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tankersley's bluff is called and as usual he folds.

Suggestion: don't make claims and charges you can't back up.

D.
--------------
"The theory that you should always treat the religious convictions of other people with respect finds no support in the Gospels."
-- Arnold Lunn (1888-1974), British author

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 15, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>. All the betting talk surrounding the last election is making a mockery of the institution.<<

There you go again. Redefining free markets. Now come back and say you didn't do it.

Posted by: cdawg

November 15, 2012 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ok, time to step up and put up. Once again:

>>You want to talk about takers from "red" states... let's look at all those welfare Caddies rolling around in the hood or those folks using a rigged barter system w/ EBT cards to buy booze and drugs while their children are left hungry.<<

Yeah. Let's look at it. What studies or findings do you have to show us?

Posted by: cdawg

November 15, 2012 at 10:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Real world observation and knowledge cdawg... I don't need created stats to have either.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 15, 2012 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

All of the would-be secessionists and half the people in this threat are nut jobs. Too much arguing and too little compromise and waaaaay too much drama.

Posted by: SPA

November 15, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

SPA,

There is way too much drama and secession is nuts.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 15, 2012 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

All revolutions have failed? Perhaps. But rebellion or succession for good cause is self-justifying__a good in itself. Rebellion transforms slaves into human beings, if only for an hour.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 15, 2012 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>Real world observation and knowledge cdawg... I don't need created stats to have either.

Posted by: Tankersley101<<

So, you have nothing but your opinion.

Posted by: cdawg

November 16, 2012 at 12:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cdawg,

If that is what you want to call real world observation. I haven't looked at any numbers.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 16, 2012 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

You have nothing. Settled.

Posted by: cdawg

November 16, 2012 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

I'll am convinced of what I have observed in the real world. I'm not sorry it didn't come from one of your approved sources.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 16, 2012 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hey Tank, what's the difference between Superman and God? Answer: There really is a Superman.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 16, 2012 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Cadillacs aren't the worst gas-guzzlers or the most expensive car, especially if they're from the used.car lot.
People in the ghetto drove Cadillacs before there was welfare, and the kind of welfare people always slam doesn't exist anymore, anyway (since 1996).
What gripes me are all the smug people driving their SUVs and big trucks they don't need for their job. Not only are they contributing to climate change but the stupid things obstruct visibility and cause more than their share of accidents.
Also, the bigger the vehicle, the farther they park from the curb, and they take up the whole street.

Posted by: Coralie

November 17, 2012 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I hate SUVs and big trucks that aren't needed for farming, or construction, or some such job.
The long trucks stick out into the driving lanes of the parking deck here at the publc library.
The driver sits so high up that he or she may not see pedestrians. I saw one almost cream a woman in a wheelchair.
Add cell phones and you've got somebody completely isolated from the rest of the world.

Posted by: Coralie

November 17, 2012 at 3:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank is smarter than FFT and Coralie is smarter than either one of them. (Observation from life)

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 17, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

As long as people are paying for what they have, they are entitled to drive whatever is legal... Cadillacs, pickups with lift kits, Smart Cars, whatever. Hey I just found a great use for public transportation...getting able bodied people caught in a "safety net" to work.

Moneymyst,

You make me smile.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 17, 2012 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Not everything that's legal is ethical.

Posted by: Coralie

November 19, 2012 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

You are corrcet, Coralie. Just look at some of the stuff certain state governments are making legal.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 20, 2012 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

it is interesting that the same ones who want to succeed also advocate to keep making our military more and more powerful and so large a force that there will be no way any revolution can ever take place in america! it would make more sense to decrease our military to a normal size.
Congress should make those cuts to our military and keep the power in the white house voted in by the people so we don't have a military take over someday.
i loved Jay Leno joke sunday.
if we go over the fiscal cliff, the pentagon may have to cut off 9,000 mistresses! that says the truth about how the recession is not affecting anyone in the higher military offices, in fact life is really really good for all those folks. They sure do not want to let congress cut one red cent from those military parties in Tampa Florida!

Posted by: ladyLiberty

November 20, 2012 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ladyliberty,

RE-

"it is interesting that the same ones who want to succeed also advocate to keep making our military more and more powerful "

Who exactly are those people?

Blindly cutting the military budget is stupid and is often suggested by people that don't know spit about defense.

People can run their mouths and keyboards all they want about the benifits upper level military leaders receive, but the fact of the matter is they get barely a fraction compared to their civilian counterparts that run relatively smaller organization and don't have anything near the same responsibility.

You want to talk about mistresses and scandal in the upper levels of leadership. How about a comparision between those wearing stars versus those that have served in the Oval Office or congress for that matter.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 20, 2012 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Why does the United States need to have such an enormous military machine?
It's bigger than most of the other countries put together.
See graphically here: http://defense.aol.com/2012/03/16/the...
Why do we need to have 100s of overseas bases?

Posted by: Coralie

November 20, 2012 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Because the whole world either hates us or hates us and kisses up to us. Only you would ask that question, Coralie

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 20, 2012 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Coralie - it's all about energy. Petroleum. Well, it's *mostly* all about that.

Posted by: SPA

November 21, 2012 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

SPA,

You are so full of crap it isn't even funny. If it was about oil, we'd have it all.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 21, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

It is not surprising that many people feel succession is a solution. Obama won the electorial and popular vote but garnered less than 10% of the land mass of the entire nation. Maybe it is time to leave cities to themselves? After all, it is cities full of the 40% of Americans that receive the lions share of money, food, housing and medical assistance in government handouts that are causing city and state governments to go bankrupt. Maybe all those productive people living everywhere else are weary of paying for it?

Posted by: jeffieboy

November 23, 2012 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

A couple questions for posters here:

1. If a family of 8 has $100 should they vote on how to spend it or should the parents decide?

Answer: The parents because they will usually decide to buy food to fee everyone, pay the rent to stay warm, and put gas in the car so they can go to work. If it were up to the kids they would go to the movies or locomotion, or vote to spend it on some other short sighted activity and the family would be out on the street without food or a way to go anywhere.

2. Taking that into account when someone says about an election that "the people have spoken" what does it really mean?

Answer: What it means is that since 1965 we have allowed anyone to vote regardless of the fact that most are not remotely qualified to make an intelligent or responsible decision. Hostess is a good example of what happens when people that have little knowledge of what is important assume a leadership role where they are completely unqualified to make decisions.

Since 1965 the US deficit has continued to increase exponentially every year because short sighted and irresponsible people have learned that they can vote themselves benefits out of the treasury. Thomas Jefferson warned that that would bankrupt the nation. We are very near the kind of breakdown he warned us about.

The folly of letting fools lead will cost the nation dearly. Anyone that thinks the "poor" have it bad now have no idea how bad it is going to get for them soon. It is a shame that Lyndon Johnson and a Democratically controlled Congress were so short sighted back in 1964. Their folly has come back to bite.

Posted by: jeffieboy

November 23, 2012 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeffie boy, where do you get such nonsense?

Jef: "Obama won the electorial... garnered less than 10% of the land mass...">>

a) land doesn't vote, nor should it
b) the notion that large tracts of uninhabited land should go toward republicans in such a calculation is ludicrous
c) see a county consideration of vote volume and proportion here:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/2012...

Further consideration here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/e...

Jef: "it is cities full of the 40% of Americans that receive the lions share of money, food,...government handouts...">>

Do you have a reference for that, because it is consistently your red states and red areas that are living on the federal dole. See:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2...

And: http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Jef: "all those productive people living everywhere else are weary of paying...?">>

You mean those socialist, wealth distributionists living in the poor red states living off the wealthier, higher tax paying blue areas? Maybe they're getting weary of taking. Observe:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 23, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeff: "since 1965 we have allowed anyone to vote regardless of the fact that most are not remotely qualified...">>

Are you missing the old days when the qualification was owning land, paying a fee or being of the right gender or skin color? Because I don't miss those days.

Jef: "Since 1965 the US deficit has continued to increase exponentially every year...">>

There is not any sense in which this is true. It's not clear if you don't understand what the word "increase" means or also "deficit" and "exponentially." Perhaps all three, because none of them are correct. For example, we had a surplus for four years in a row during Clinton and the deficit has even *decreased* during each of the last three years under Obama.

Here are some charts that may help you:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Jef: "We are very near the kind of breakdown [Jefferson] warned us about.">>

No we aren't. But it seems we don't have a deficit of individuals that like to go on about matters they either don't understand or haven't take the time to investigate carefully.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 23, 2012 at 10:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

What Republicians need to realize is that they lost this election and Democrats will find out that they lost too.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 23, 2012 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Moneymyst, what is your evidence for the claim that "the whole world either hates us or hates us and kisses up to us."
Hint: There are about 190 other countries in the world. They have 95% of the world's population. They are not all alike.
Those countries that "hate us" are you talking about their governments or their publics?
Would they have any particular reasons to hate us? See http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/gross...

Posted by: Coralie

November 24, 2012 at 11:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

OK, Coralie

1 USA in the only nation to drop an atomic bomb on another nation.
2 Shifting alliances in the Middle East
3 Operation Ajax: The 1953 Iranian Coup d'etat.
4 American Exceptionalism and its two-faced foreign policy
5 The War in Iraq and Afganistan
6 The War in VietNam
7 Unflinching (until now) support of Israel
8 Support of rebellians throughout the Cold War
9 Gluttons when it comes to food and oil.
10 George Bush.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 24, 2012 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Moneymyst,

You and that list should run for Secretary-General of the UN. Then you could could personally send strongly worded letters to the villians of the world.

We happen to be loved in many places and by many people around the world. I've seen it with my own eyes..... I've been there (many times out of uniform).

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 25, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

go ahead Texas ,..succeed from the USA then when you are having those conflicts with Mexico you will NOT get the help of the united states military. YOYO
our military is so wealthy compared to the rest of the country, they have their own medicare, health care, pension, government jobs, parties (Gala ones too)
and do not even know what we are talking about with this recession.
a friend of mine working at the pentagon says all they do al day is trade jokes by internet..it is a damn party all day!

Posted by: ladyLiberty

November 25, 2012 at 1:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The US military is about as popular as Obama in the Morman Tabernacle.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 25, 2012 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

ladyliberty,

You nor your alleged friend know a damn thing about the how things work at the Pentagon or in the ranks anywhere else in our organization from the looks of it. I know all about the recession. Some of my immediate family members lost their jobs and house.

You have a problem with the benifits military members get? Try going on 6 deployments and having to put up with garbage from people that don't have a clue about how the world works. I don't have a problem with the deployments, I have a problem with the people that fit right in their with the ones that were marching, chanting, spitting, and burning flags back in the 60s.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 25, 2012 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

MoneyMyst, you have given some reasons WHY people might hate "us"(which is to say our government and it's military actions) but no evidence that the publics in various countries do hate us as people.
It is always mentioned that some Palestinian kids cheered about 9/11 but is never mentioned that crowds of people in many countries spontaneously expressed their sympathy and solidarity with us that day. For instance, in Berlin tens of thousands of people assembled at the Brandenburg Gate in shared mourning.

Posted by: Coralie

November 25, 2012 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Everyone hates America because it has become the ultimate hypocrite. It moans and whines about the spread of fascism and communism, yet are very eager to send the corrupt US military to invade another country to force our idea of democracy on them while, at the same time, adopting the same kind of government we just tore down in another country. Go to another country and they are just so happy to see you and even happier when you leave. The twin towers fell and the world cheered.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 25, 2012 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I smile everywhere I go outside the US and I see little bit of America in each place. (e.g. American Pop music, American clothes, American movies, American food, American cars, etc.) Folks sure want to micmic us a whole lot for hating us so.

Posted by: Tankersley101

November 25, 2012 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Regarding the notion that:

"The twin towers fell and the world cheered."

A nice compilation of evidence showing exactly otherwise here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction...

For those that don't know, "Moneymyst" is the same two bit troll that has been kicked off of this forum under different names before. He doesn't care what he says, his purpose is not to inform but rather to provoke reactions. Boring.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 25, 2012 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Not speaking political, racest, or antaganist. First Alpha cat, May I call you Tokyo Rose ? Queen of propaganda. Your story dosn't add up. Now in my days of dealing with life we had rules of conduct. If you have to think twice about something, don't do it. Never tackle a job you can't finish, Be it 1day, 1 week, or a life time, finish it. There are ramifacations to every thing we do, good or bad. My thought is (being a decendent of one of the signers of the Deckloration of Independence ) I support every ones protection of freedom. I do believe ther should be rules of conduct on this issue to. We all stood back and watched as the last (Red Sticks), War chiefs we had in office who left over 4 years ago. Spend , and barrow us into oblivia. To leave a mess for the next administration to straiten out. Now being way pass 13 years old, I wish to patition that befor this is granted to any state that the will be required to pay their 1/50th of the deficit paid in full. that they should declare as a seperate nation, pay and collect trade tariff. support their own nation and there own people as a free nation. Would hate to see you go, but you are free to do it.Thank you...Monitor67

Posted by: monitor67

November 25, 2012 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

NO Alpha Cat is NOT queen of propaganda..no way
Winston churchhill may be as he said these things:

1.Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
2.To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
3.Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
4.I didn’t say it was your fault; I said I was blaming you.
5.I used to be indecisive. Now I’m not so sure.
6.I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn’t work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.
7.Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
8.War does not determine who is right – only who is left.
9.Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.
10.Shut your mouth when you’re talking to me.
11.Silence is golden, duct tape is silver.
12.The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it’s still on the list.
++++++++++++++++
i would rather quote Alpha Cat..who is usually right on! a real thinker..keep up the posts Alpha cat. i really enjoy your input.

Posted by: ladyLiberty

November 25, 2012 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

monitor67--

RE "First Alpha cat, May I call you Tokyo Rose ?"
Given your apparent confusion, you'd do better to stick to the name I already have. That would be one less thing to remember.

RE "Queen of propaganda."
Well, that tears it. I'm a tomcat-- or a "gentleman cat", as my mother used to say.

RE "Your story dosn't add up."
I didn't tell a story, so a sum is not required.

RE "If you have to think twice about something, don't do it."
You will have to think the first time before you can think the second time. We'll wait. And what about "Measure twice; cut once"? That seems like good advice, even though it doesn't square at all with what you said.

RE "My thought is (being a decendent of one of the signers of the Deckloration of Independence )"
The word "descendant" is one clue that it has been a downhill journey.

Welcome to NWAonline.

ladyLiberty--

You are too kind.

Posted by: AlphaCat

November 26, 2012 at 12:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Freebee, I'm really insulted by your description of me as a "two-bit troll". I've never sought to achieve that high a station in life, two-bits? I have always thought of myself as a Tinhorn troll; that is a troll with crass pretensions above their achieved station in life.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 26, 2012 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

What inspired Monitor's abuse anyway? I went back and couldn't even find a recent post by AlphaCat, much less one that would elicit such insults.
When you come again, Monitor, do some proof-reading first.

Posted by: Coralie

November 26, 2012 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Alpha Cat: I"m sorry I had to step on your tail, It was my first post on here, and I needed to find out who was the real Americans, Your name you chose said alot about you, You are a person who is O.K.. I don't like kiss ups. Just people who speak their mind. In years past your type of personality was called Paca Man.You are O.K. . forgive me for baiting you. and hats off to Lady Liberty.P.S. by the way I'm not that proud of my blood line, I just was born with it Thank You Monitor67

Posted by: monitor67

November 26, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

monitor67--

My tail is quite all right. It pleases me to see the diversity of our microcosm increase. We've lost a few passengers over the past year or so.

Posted by: AlphaCat

November 26, 2012 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The only way to cure this once great country that is now is in fiscal and moral decay is to take the right to vote away from those who are eating free from the government walfare table. This does not include senior citizens who have paid in. Pay no taxes and no vote.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 27, 2012 at 2:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Red Friday, day after Thankgiving, on this oned day the US Treasury increased the net debt of the USA to $24,327,048.38, which equals aproximately $211.69 for each of the nation's 114,916,000 households. This means that since Obama has been president, the national debt has increased by about $49,432.73 per household. Bankrupt.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 27, 2012 at 2:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Thomas Jefferson said something along the lines of, "When people learn that they can vote themselves benefits from the treasury they will bankrupt the nation." It has apparently come to pass. The liberalism that brought us to this point not only a disables the nation, it is a mental disablity. People with mental disabilities should not have to suffer the demands and burdens of considering rational decisions they are not capable of making. Therefore they should refrain from voting at all cost.

Posted by: jeffieboy

November 27, 2012 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

No, Jeffieboy, it was not Thomas Jefferson who said that.
Based on his other writings, he would be most unlikely to say such a thing.
A recent column by Bradlely Gitz in the other newspaper ascribes the quote to Scottish historian Alexander Tytler (1747-1813),
However, Wikipedia says:
The famous "why democracies fail" quotation is

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Its earliest confirmed use is on page 12A of the Daily Oklahoman on December 9, 1951, which attributed it to Tytler. Later references to the quote specify that it's from the book "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic" by Alexander Fraser Tytler. No record of that book can be found, and nobody can find any other work by Tytler with the quotation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler

Posted by: Coralie

November 27, 2012 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

For heaven's sake, it is not "welfare" that raises the national debt, it is WARS. Look at the record.
Furthermore, the bozos never actually define what they mean by "welfare."
AFDC is no more.
Medicaid is what we have because unlike just about every other civilized country, we don't have universal health care.
Unemployment compensation is necessary because of an economic collapse due to financial fraud and speculation like in the 1920s.
Same with food stamps.
Some people may be abusing the system but many more are out of work, trying to support a family on minimum wage, or seniors and disabled individuals on very small incomes.
AND as FFT has pointed out before in detail, everybody rich and poor pays taxes!
Income tax is not the only tax.
Poor people pay taxes disproportionately in the form of the payroll tax and sales taxes, especially those on food and other necessities.

Posted by: Coralie

November 27, 2012 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I didn't say (take away the welfare programs) the bankrupty of the country will take care of that. We are looking at runaway inflation by the reckless printing of money. Loaf of bread $10.00: Food stamps monthly, $75.00. The country is bankrupt now, but keeps on borrowing money to delay the payment. Try that in your household.
All I suggested is limiting the vote to those who actually pay income taxes. Don't care who caused it, Coralie, it is here, better get ready.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 27, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Coralie: "No, Jeffieboy, it was not Thomas Jefferson who said that.">>

Excellent unpack Coralie.

Knew that one was a stinker when I saw it.

D.
--------------
On other matters.... America isn't remotely broke and inflation is at 40 year lows (it's actually a little too low).
http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Those who say otherwise ought to do a little checking, or, perhaps if making comments that are actually true is not something they are interested in, they might find their time better spent looking for Bigfoot. At least that way they can get a free house:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 27, 2012 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The federal government was not formed to support people, but to serve people. Even Paul worked for his keep when he stayed at a house. People have become 'lovers of themselves',envious of others instead of just wanting to support their families. True happiness and contentment does not lie in receiving, but in your own work.

Posted by: mycentworth

November 28, 2012 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Brillant, mycentworth, common sense approach from a real thinker. Thanks

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 28, 2012 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

It is no big secret that the US dollar continues to be driven down in value by dunder-headed economic policies from alleged leaders like Obama and Bernanke. Fed Chairman Ben Benanke says the Fed is working on methods to drain the excess reserves from the system and lessen the risks of high inflation, but there are reasons to doubt the Fed's ability to do so. One reason is historical because no central bank has ever successfully drained such massive reserves without creating liquidity problems. The second reason is a delicate line that results from liquidity, Draining too little will lead to inflation and draining too much will raise interest rates so as to weaken the economy even more. The scary truth is that right now looking at statistics like the Commodity Research Bureau Index (CRBI) and see the first spikes of the worst coming to pass. The first place to look at is prices at the gas pumps and grocery stores. The CRBI has climbed 23% in the past five months, which means that a group of 19 different commodies have increased by that much in price. Some randon samplings: cotton has risen 84%, wheat 50%, coffee 37%, and the Thanksgiving turkey cost you 28% more this year than last. Now to make it real simple, excessive borrowing and wreckless printing of dollars to support a welfare state is a deadly combinition. Do I get a house?

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 28, 2012 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Moneymyst the plagiarist asks:

"Do I get a house?">>

No. People who plagiarize and steal the written work of others and then dishonestly try to pass it off as their own, don't get anything but exposed.

D.
---------------------
Compare the following to what Moneymyst has dishonestly pretended he wrote above:

"It’s no big secret that the U.S. Dollar continues to be driven down in value by dunder-headed economic policies from alleged leaders with names like Obama and Bernanke...

"The scary truth is that right now, today, we can look at statistics like the Commodity Research Bureau Index (CRBI) and see the first spikes of the worst coming to pass. The first place you’re likely to notice skyrocketing prices are at the gas pump and grocery store. The CRBI has climbed 23% in the past five months, which means that a group of 19 different commodities have increased by that much in price.
Some random samplings: cotton has risen 84%, wheat 50%, coffee 37%, and the Thanksgiving turkey – in case you didn’t notice – cost you 28% more this year than last."

Source: http://americanmonetaryassociation.or...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 29, 2012 at 1 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

In the above sample exposing Moneymyst's plagiarism I provide the beginning and ending bits that he stole. But does that mean he actually accidentally said something intelligent in the middle?

I didn't think so.

Here's where Moneymyst stole the rest of his comment from, word for word:

"Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says the Fed is working on methods to drain the excess reserves from the system and lessen the risks of high inflation. But there are reasons to doubt the Fed’s ability to do so.

One reason is historical. No central bank has ever attempted to drain such massive excess reserves from a banking system. In addition, the Fed also must walk a delicate line. Draining too much money from the economy could raise interest rates and create liquidity problems, threatening the fragile recovery. Draining too little could lead to inflation."

Source: https://www.aier.org/article/7550-inf...

Fascinating eh?

If one were to make a list of really enjoyable and satisfying things to do, I think busting plagiarists would have to be right up near the top.

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 29, 2012 at 1:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

To steal from one is plagiarism, to steal from many is research...Churchill

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 29, 2012 at 2:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

When you lose in the arena of ideas, change the subject and certainly don't comment on the facts....Democrat playbook

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 29, 2012 at 2:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

MoneyM: "To steal from one is plagiarism,...">>

Which is what you did. It's good that you seem to accept your dishonesty. That's a good start.

MM: "to steal from many is research...Churchill">>

That wasn't Churchill: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/09/...

But good job on at least attempting to reveal who you think said it rather than trying to dishonestly take credit for the comment yourself.

D.
-------------------
Inflation hasn't changed from a decade ago and is at 40 year lows:
"The average inflation rate during Bernanke's tenure, at 2.3%, beats that of every Fed chair since 1970."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/art...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 29, 2012 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

WHY THE US IS BANKRUPT

Under the leadership of Obama the US now borrows 40 cents of every dollar it spends. Anyone can figure this as 40% of the US Government outlay. Here is what we spend out tax money and borrowed money on. In order

1. National Defence 24%
2. Social Security 20%
3. Income Security or welfare 17%
4. Medicare 13%
5. Health (not covered by medicare) 10%
6. Interest 5%
7. Education & Social Services 3%
8. Transportation 3%
9. Justice 2%
10. Other 3%

Now, tell me please, what ya gonna cut to get 40% and a balanced budget. See why the Democrats haven't passed a budget for years. The only way out of this bankruptcy is to default, or put a cap on spending and grow the economy beyond anything we have ever historically seen.

This comment was plagiarised from US Government statistics.

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 29, 2012 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

MoneyM: "...the US is bankrupt">>

No it isn't. Not by a long shot. You've already shown your aren't an honest person with regard to posting comments that are completely plagiarized, try not to also be so plainly dishonest with language.

broke –verb
4. without money; penniless.
5. bankrupt.

bankrupt, noun
1. a. Having been legally declared financially insolvent.
b. Financially ruined; impoverished.

2. a. Depleted of valuable qualities or characteristics:
b. Totally depleted; destitute:
http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...

The US still has the greatest collection of wealth on the planet and the:

"Total Assets of the U.S. Economy $188 Trillion, 13.4x GDP"

Details here... Rutledge Capital: http://rutledgecapital.com/2009/05/24...

Subtracting about $15 trillion, still leaves us about $173 trillion in the plus.

Being $170 trillion in the plus is in no sense broke, or bankrupt, and anyone who thinks that's broke is either profoundly misinformed, not honest, or both.

I've helped you with the misinformed part, I can't help you with the honesty part.

D.
--------------
"8 Facts That Prove Our Govt. Is Not Going Broke"
http://www.alternet.org/economy/8-fac...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 29, 2012 at 10:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Now I continue:

1. For the first time in modern history, Canadians are wealthier than Americans.
2. The median net worth if US households in 2007 was $125.000, now it is 77.000.
3. Since 2008 the US economy has lost 1.3 million jobs.
4. Since Obama became king, the number of Americans living in proverty is up by 6.4 million.
5. The number of Americans on food stamps has risen from 32 million to 46 million under Obama.

And thats just five. Can't blame Bush no more, NOW Democrats, You Own IT. And its getting worse. At this point, I would say, "And you Dems are to stupid to fix it", but that would be dishonest. Truth is, the US economy is too far down the road to ruin, that it can't be fixed. However Democrat policies can certainly hasten us to that unavoidable end.

Source US Goverment statistics and Common Sense

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 30, 2012 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

MM: "Now I continue:">>

With more unsourced errors and whoppers. Or what I like to call, softballs. Readers should note how MM doesn't learn from or acknowledge his mistakes, he just blissfully goes on to squeeze out new ones.

MM: "1. For the first time in modern history, Canadians are wealthier than Americans.">>

No, not for the first time in history. As this article points out, Canadians had greater median net worth in 2004 and 2005.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...

It notes regarding the headline you are passing along:

"The average Canadian is not wealthier than the average American for “the first time in recent history.” He’s been wealthier all along."

MM: "2. The median net worth if US households in 2007 was $125.000, now it is 77.000.">>

Indeed:

***
"Americans saw wealth plummet 40 percent from 2007 to 2010, Federal Reserve says

The recent recession wiped out nearly two decades of Americans’ wealth, according to government data released Monday, with ­middle-class families bearing the brunt of the decline.

The Federal Reserve said the median net worth of families plunged by 39 percent in just three years, from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010. That puts Americans roughly on par with where they were in 1992."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busines...

Thanks Bush.

MM: "3. Since 2008 the US economy has lost 1.3 million jobs.">>

Actually, Bush lost about 3 million jobs during just his last year. Two million of those were lost in the last four months of 2008. http://tinyurl.com/7z3sss

We are now in positive job territory. Also more private sector jobs were created in 2010 under Obama than under eight years of Bush.
http://tinyurl.com/24smpkc
And: http://tinyurl.com/4hq8dbt

And, private sector job creation under Obama in 2011 was larger than seven out of the eight years Bush was president. http://tinyurl.com/8xjbuc8

Also, as of June 2012, more jobs have been created in three and half years under Obama, than under the entire twelve years of the three terms of father and son Bush. http://tinyurl.com/dtrrp

I think that's kind of neat.

MM: "4. Since Obama... Americans living in proverty is up by 6.4 million.">>

Folks know that's Bush residue.

MM: "5. number... on food stamps has risen from 32 million to 46 million under Obama.">>

It rose by 14.2 million under Bush. This is partly due to the changing metric of who qualifies.
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/newt...

And it's all pretty much Bush residue.

MM: "Can't blame Bush no more,">>

I reserve the right to blame Bush until at least the 2020's.

MM: "And its getting worse.">>

Wrong. Here are 16 lines of evidence I've posted with charts and reference, showing exactly it's getting better:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

November 30, 2012 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

BANKRUPT

Bankruptcy is condition the US under the Obama administration reported to the United Nations last Thursday. The US in January of 2014 officially declared insolvency when the US defaulted on its payments to creditors. Oboma when questioned about the failure of US economy, placed the fault clearly on George Bush. Harry Reid blamed all Republicians everywhere. Bill Clinton faulted Clint Eastwood. Hillary blamed men. Republicians placed God as number one disapointment. Social Security senior citrizens threw wheelchairs over the white house fence and ex-walfare checkcashers ran their scooters into the white house gate.

US News & World Report Jan16, 2014

Posted by: Moneymyst

November 30, 2012 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ho, ho, ho.
Merry Christmas every;one.

Posted by: Coralie

November 30, 2012 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"We have to pass the bill (Obama care) so you can find out what is in it."......Nancy Pelosi

There is only on thing I know of that you have to pass in order to find out whats in it and it stinks really bad like Obama care. Goodby USA, you were good till Obama killed you.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 1, 2012 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

[out of context excerpt from Pelosi]

Nice unpack of this tired wingnut echo chamber distortion provided here:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2010/04/...

D.
------------
"Beck's video made it seem as if Speaker Pelosi simply said that "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it," and he went on to suggest that what Pelosi meant was that she was deceitfully hiding what was in the health care legislation until after it passed.

In fact, what Beck left off is the rest of Pelosi's statement. After commenting that discussion of health care reform had been focused on "the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill," she said in full, "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy." --ibid

Posted by: fayfreethinker

December 1, 2012 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil fuels."....Nancy Pelosi

I'm sorry son, but in the war of ideas, your Democrat leader came without a clue. A little em"bareass"ed you and she should be. Root of the word if you didn't know.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 1, 2012 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

As a woman it has not escaped my notice that the first woman Speaker of the House has been constantly derided and demonized.
I am just old enough to remember the nasty jokes made about Eleanor Roosevelt--an intellilgent woman who assumed a more active role as First Lady than her predecessosrs, and who wasn't especially good-looking.
Presumably Pelosi misspoke, leaving out the word "other" fossil fuels or "dirtier" fossil fuels.
I guess you never misspeak, Moneymyst.
This excessive attention to any word slip by Democratic officials is some kind of payback for pointing out that George W. Bush had a bad problem with his native language, its syntax and logic in general.

Posted by: Coralie

December 2, 2012 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."....George Bush

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 2, 2012 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

moneymyst,
if the republicans try to get the morgage deductions as the one to balance the tax breaks, then americans may actually be better to sell thier homes and move to a country that offers free health insurance. well, everyone except the washington congress who already get the health insurance, and all the breaks.
we need to pressure our representatives to live with the same health ins. social security that we do.

Posted by: ladyLiberty

December 3, 2012 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Right, ladyLiberty, Canada is looking better all the time.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 3, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Interesting conversations, I needed 2 cups of coffee to weave my way through them. I found the discourse on the Fraser quote interesting. Several articles have been written about this quote.

I found this one interesting and fairly well written.
http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

More about Fraser
http://www.electricscotland.com/histo...

Another interesting take
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/nort...

I did find a book on Google e-books
UNIVERSAL HISTORY FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD by Fraser
http://books.google.com/books?id=6FKH...

The closest thing I can find he wrote near to his attributed quote is on page 216

If such was the condition of the chief republics of antiquity whose liberty we so frequently hear extolled with boundless encomium and whose constitution we are taught from our childhood to admire and in fact this may fairly be ranked among the prejudices with which ingenuous youth can scarcely fail to be tinctured from a classical education it is not perhaps unreasonable to conclude that a pure and perfect democracy is a thing not attainable by man constituted as he is of contending elements of vice and virtue and ever mainly influenced by the predominant principle of self interest It may indeed be confidently asserted that there never was that government called a republic which was not ultimately ruled by a single will and therefore however bold may seem the paradox virtually and substantially a monarchy The only difference between governments with respect to the political freedom of the subject consists in the greater or the smaller number of restraints by which the regulating will is controlled This subject is sufficiently important to merit a short illustration.

I leave it to you to read the rest if you are interested.

Very interesting food for thought, as far as secession, I don’t see it happening. The republic will survive. But people have the right to vent; in the end internet petitions usually do not accomplish anything. Interesting discourse folks, I am however beginning to think that some of you at times do not like each other.

Posted by: drummer1369

December 6, 2012 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hard to dislike those whom one does not know, but through exchanging ideas and comments.

Free is a liberal athist who is allways giving you the missing link.
GenBuck is Hannibal Lector
Coralie is head of Up with women and Down with men.
Moneymyst should be locked up for being criminally insane, but since he is only just insane, they don't have room for him.
AlphaCat marches to the sound of a different drummer that no one else can hear.
OldRustyNut's name says all you really need to know about him.
ladyLiberty hides behind a mask and tells us not to believe that republican behind the curtian and then points out that all republicans are hidden behind a curtain.

Who's to like?

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 7, 2012 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

To continue:

Tank's name says it all too. Military man, joined up to drive a tank and was given a potatoe and a genshu.
cdaug has his issued a rebutal against his/her own opinion
jeffieboy may be the only sane person that comments, but just being here makes him suspect.

If I left anybody out that should be here, you deserved it.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 7, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"Coralie is head of Up with women and Down with men."
Ridiculous. I've never been a strident feminist. Nor is feminism my major concern. Just one of many.
"AlphaCat marches to the sound of a different drummer that no one else can hear."
That's incorrect--I can easily hear the beat of AlphaCat's drummer..

Posted by: Coralie

December 7, 2012 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Satire and humor, lighten up Coralie.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 7, 2012 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Somehow I doubt you are criminally insane, moneymyst, interesting descriptions of the folks on NWA online.

Posted by: drummer1369

December 12, 2012 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Just insane. Due to age, I've had to give up the criminal past. Just to difficult to crawl around with a hose and a gas can anymore. Too much compitition in the oil business these days.

Posted by: Moneymyst

December 12, 2012 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

You are a funny guy, Money. No tank driver's in my branch. Funny though.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 13, 2012 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )