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The party of packing

Posted: December 27, 2012 at 1:33 a.m.

Compare the rate of murder by gun in the United States to the rate in any other advanced industrial nation, and you’re forced to draw one of two conclusions: Either there are far more homicidal people in this country than just about any place else on Earth, or far more guns. We must either be home to more people who succumb to murderous rage or who kill out of the coldest of calculations, or it’s easier to pick up a gun and start shooting here than in any comparable country.

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Editorial, Pages 12 on 12/27/2012

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Oops! There is one little, but critical flaw in this argument. It concludes that the number of guns relates to violence and does so without including all the other tools people use to do violence.

Cherry picking a few numbers cannot validate an argument. This author gathers convenient facts and applies them where necessary to support his opinion regardless of their relevance.

Associating facts and drawing conclusions where valid associations do not exist is revealing and rightfully embarassing for whoever makes them. This kind of foolishness is a large part of what's wrong with the reasoning ability of many.

There are more gun homicides in Chicago than any other US city yet they have the most restrictive and draconian gun laws of nearly anywhere in the nation. If gun control worked, they would be using knives or baseball bats or candle sticks, not guns.

Posted by: jeffieboy

December 27, 2012 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

There is a very good reason that gun owners are disproportionately Republican - The Democrat party, especially the "progressive" wing, has made it obvious in so many ways that gun owners are not welcome. These democrats have made no secret that their ultimate goal is to eliminate civilian gun ownership entirely, despite their pleas to the contrary. In a way, its like Israel and Hamas - Hamas has dedicated itself to the utter destruction of Israel, and any negotiations or "treaties" with Israel are but another step toward their ultimate goal. The same with Democrats and the Second Amendment - their ultimate goal is it's repeal, and any "negotions or treaties" with gun owners are just another step toward their ultimate goal. Any wonder why gun owners are reluctant to make ANY deals with them?

Posted by: cjranger

December 27, 2012 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

"In order to reduce drunk driving, lets outlaw drunk automobiles.".....ME

Posted by: JailBird

December 27, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Excellent analogy, cjranger. Both cases are true.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 27, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>There is a very good reason that gun owners are disproportionately Republican - The Democrat party, especially the "progressive" wing, has made it obvious in so many ways that gun owners are not welcome.<

Really. Here's what Republican appointed Chief Justice Warren Burger said:

The Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud,' on the American public," former chief justice Warren E. Burger said in a 1991 interview on PBS's "MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour." Burger has said often that the "right to bear arms" belongs to the states, and he has attacked the NRA for fostering the opposite view.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/...

Hardly a democrat.
.

Posted by: cdawg

December 27, 2012 at 11:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

What does a Chief Justice's votes that were some times in tune with the Left have to do with the idelogy of the Left and who is presently welcome in the Democratic Party?

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 28, 2012 at 4:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

One thing I learned from this dude's opinion is that if I wanted to be in the gun selling business, I would be a Republican and it I wanted to be in the gun shooting-killing business, I would be a Democrat.

Posted by: JailBird

December 28, 2012 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

When the gun issue comes up in the news, it dominates these blogs. Also comments by gun-lovers greatly outnumber the gun skeptics. Also the tone of the discussion usually degenerates to an even lower level than usual.

Posted by: Coralie

December 28, 2012 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country."....Mayor Marion Barry, Washington DC

See, Coralie, I just brought it even lower

Posted by: JailBird

December 28, 2012 at 2:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I know several democrats who own guns. They just don't worship them and proclaim that a gun culture is a cure-all for urban-suburban violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...

Posted by: cdawg

December 28, 2012 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Nobodu is worshipping guns. Stripping rights from the law abiding citizens of this country aren't going to make the "urban-suburban" offenders straighten up.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 28, 2012 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

How about keep said offenders in jail or executing them instead of continually making excuses for them and their behaviour.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 28, 2012 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

We see that none of Mr. Meyerson's critics have actually rebutted the argument that "the danger of gun violence rises with the number of guns."

Posted by: FrankLloydLeft

December 28, 2012 at 11:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The danger of any kind of violence rises when bleeding hearts let violent criminals go. Reference one Michael S. Dukakis.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 28, 2012 at 11:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Watch out for all those white, gun toting, Southerners.

What a bunch of race baiting crap.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--6nSv_H5th0...

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 28, 2012 at 11:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>What does a Chief Justice's votes that were some times in tune with the Left have to do with the idelogy of the Left and who is presently welcome in the Democratic Party?<<

Because Justice Burger is a deeply convicted long time Republican since at least 1948.

When you notice a red line under a word you're attempting to spell it indicates the word is misspelled.

Posted by: cdawg

December 29, 2012 at 1:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>How about keep said offenders in jail or executing them instead of continually making excuses for them and their behaviour<<

Whose done that?

Posted by: cdawg

December 29, 2012 at 1:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cdawg,

RE-

"When you notice a red line under a word you're attempting to spell it indicates the word is misspelled."

No kidding. Is that the best you have?

You still clinging on to the the opinions of 1 conservative versus who is presently welcome in the Democratic Party?

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 29, 2012 at 2:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Whose done that?

A plethora of judges and politicians that have pardoned, parolled, or furloughed violent offendors.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 29, 2012 at 2:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Ah, Frank . Left, "the danger of gun violence rises with the number of guns." is an obivious conclusion as is "the danger of knife violence rises with the number of knifes."

It is a economic question, not a gun question, the more automobiles driven rises with the number of automobiles produced, provided those automobiles are sold and providing there is also an increase in the number of drivers. See Franco, every equation has more factors than one, you seem to have left out the human one. Was that on purpose?

Posted by: JailBird

December 29, 2012 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Gratified to see that Money agrees with the obvious conclusion that "the danger of gun violence rises with the number of guns."

And I agree with Money that the number of guns in a society can be influenced by economic factors. There's huge profit to be made in an unregulated gun market, particularly when a large consumer demographic is so closely allied with such an effective industry lobbying arm like the NRA.

Posted by: FrankLloydLeft

December 29, 2012 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tank notes "A plethora of judges and politicians that have pardoned, parolled, or furloughed violent offendors"
Republican Governor Mike Huckabee.

Posted by: Coralie

December 29, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Gov Huckabee is a great patron saint for the "forgive them they knew not what they did crowd" and Frank, Coralie is right, the danger of violence rises with the number of violent criminals turned loose.

Posted by: JailBird

December 29, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Coralie,

We could compile a long list.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 29, 2012 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Most certainly.

Posted by: JailBird

December 29, 2012 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

i think the ones wanting to restrict gun ownership was mainly to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable. like keeping matches out of the hands of pyromaniacs, like we have drivers liscense checks for those under age 21 buying alchohol. limits are smart and effective for the extreme cases, banning is too rigid for everyone.
i recommend limits on guns not a ban.

Posted by: ladyLiberty

December 30, 2012 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ladyLiberty,

There are already limits and restrictions. We should enforce those among other laws before piling more on.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 30, 2012 at 11:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I think it unconstitutional to keep matches out of the hands of pyromaniacs, but we could only give them "strike on the box only" matches and take away the box. Thats how stupid the liberal gun law proposals are.

Posted by: JailBird

January 3, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

moneymyst
your gloom and doom pessimism is NOT helpful to intelligent problem solving.
we still can try even if it does not solve the problems 100% .
every life saved is a life saved.
i agree with Tank
maybe just enforce the laws we have.

Posted by: ladyLiberty

January 4, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal )