(Advertisement)

Where Did Conservative GOP Go?

Posted: December 4, 2012 at 1:48 a.m.

I... suggest Congress forget Petraeus and Sanford and Spitzer and Weiner and Gov. Arnold and get on with restoring the tax rates we once had where the rich paid a fair share of the burden and our economy thrived. A cursory examination of the tax rates in our past or in other countries will demonstrate this is the way to go.

This story is only available from our archives.

Opinion, Pages 5 on 12/04/2012

(Advertisement)



« Previous Story

Fayetteville Might Avoid Reserve Dip

Mayor Lioneld Jordan’s administration will tonight ask the City Council to approve a 2013 budget that is an 11.2 percent increase over the 2012 spending plan. Read »

Next Story »

Keeping A Pledge To Our Children

Some congressional Republicans are beginning to back off that “Taxpayer Protection Pledge” they signed. That’s a hopeful sign, because they never should have signed such a ... Read »

Who decides what's fair when it comes to your property and the things a person creates? We live in a Republic where equal rights and property are protected. "Fair" has nothing to do with it. If someone wanted to be "fair" everyone would pay equally, for example a flat percentage regardless of income. Proposing that people that work harder or smarter, or create something of great value somehow "owes more" to people that are less industrious, not as smart, not as driven, or simply lazy is a rediculous idea.

It's just about as silly as the sticking point on this "cliff" asking the "wealthy" to pay a little more. If they are forced to do that the revenue funds the government for maybe 10 days. What about the other 355? The problem isn't taxes, it's government spending.

It is also the willy nilly printing of money to cover the debt. Simply printing money is a hidden form of taxation on everyone as inflation eats away at the value of the money you hold. That hurts people more than anything else and it hurts "poor" people the most.

Deficit spending is the problem, not what executives make or the wealth the wealthy hold.

Posted by: jeffieboy

December 4, 2012 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>Who decides what's fair when it comes to your property and the things a person creates?<

"We the people."

Btw, only government can create your idea of "property."

Posted by: cdawg

December 4, 2012 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I see we have a communist here. Interesting. There are several countries that might welcome the idea that government decides what is yours and what you deserve. Karl Marx and Lenin come to mind. This isn't one of them, though. :)

Posted by: jeffieboy

December 4, 2012 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeffie: "Who decides what's fair when it comes to your property and the things a person creates?">>

We do, as a society through our democratically elected leaders, in accordance with the Constitution.

Jeff: "We live in a Republic where equal rights and property are protected.">>

Property isn't protected from taxation.

Jeff: "...to be "fair" everyone would pay equally,... a flat percentage regardless of income.">>

Our tax brackets are flat. Everyone pays an equal amount on the same bracket of income. Or at least they are supposed to. Lot's of people, like Mitt Romney, have learned how to game the system.

Jeff: "asking the "wealthy" to pay a little more... funds the government for maybe 10 days.">>

A standard conservative distortion. Bush tax cuts, which went largely to the rich, cost the treasury about $2.5 trillion over ten years.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/sho...

There is no sense in which $2.5 trillion is an insignificant amount of money. (Laid out as one dollar bills, end to end, they would extend to the sun and back and half way to the sun again.)

Jeff: "The problem isn't taxes, it's government spending.">>

You are misinformed. Taxes are at 60 year lows and...
"Government spending under Obama, including his signature stimulus bill, is rising at a 1.4% annualized pace — slower than at any time in nearly 60 years.
...under Obama, federal spending is rising at the slowest pace since Dwight Eisenhower brought the Korean War to an end in the 1950s." http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

Scroll down to chart #13: http://tinyurl.com/7kgtr3x

Jeff: "the willy nilly printing of money to cover the debt.">>

Printing money doesn't "cover the debt."

Jeff: "a hidden form of taxation on everyone as inflation eats away at the value of the money...">>

Inflation is at 40 year lows:

"The average inflation rate during Bernanke's tenure, at 2.3%, beats that of every Fed chair since 1970." http://tinyurl.com/ajsds8j

We could use some inflation.

Jefff: "Deficit spending is the problem,...">>

No it isn't. And you conservatives have exactly *zero* credibility on matters regarding deficit spending.

"Using the Bush White House's own numbers, the federal government under Bill Clinton grew at an annual rate of 3.4 percent. But over the past four years under George W. Bush and his Republican Congress, the federal government has grown at a staggering rate of 10.4 percent." --Joe Scarborough, "Rome Wasn't Burnt in a Day”

And: "Over the last 75 years, Republican administrations have had an average annual deficit of $83.4 billion. The average for Democratic presidents is one fourth of that, only $20 billion. http://hnn.us/articles/8301.html

And: Since 1959 federal spending has gone up an average $35 billion a year under Democratic presidents and $60 billion under Republicans." http://tinyurl.com/43qlp

Posted by: fayfreethinker

December 4, 2012 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jeffieboy,

Some here don't recognize "progressive" taxation as the boon it is. In the spirit of true human nature, some folks feel entitlted to take as much as they can from people that earn their keep or were fortunate enough to inherent financial wellbeing. Some take up the banner of things to degrade our society at the same time.... all in the name of progress of course.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 5, 2012 at 2:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Four of five peoples sitting on the back porch watching an old man mow his yard. Tom says,"Too hot for that old man to be out there mowing, I think I'll go help him, Any of you want go with me?" Joe said, "Naw, too hot". The others agreed with Joe. So Tom went out in the heat and helped the old man finish his lawn and the old man gave Tom twenty dollars. Now the question is; whose $20 is it. Does it belong to Tom, he worked for it? Does it belong to the group so that they can vote on how to divide it up among themselves? Does it belong to Joe, because he has a sick child and has a greater need? The way you answer this question will determine whither you are a captialist, a communist, or democrat.

Posted by: JailBird

December 5, 2012 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Moneymyst, your little stories prove nothing at all.
Try this one:
A bunch of pirates landed in a new place and took it over.
The people who were living there before said, "Get outta here!" The pirates drove them away with their superior firepower. They now owned the land and made the rules because:
1. Their technology was superior to that of the natives.
2. They had a better religion and the correct conception of God compared to the natives.
3. They had a better grasp of economics. They divided up the land into individual parcels and competed with each other, whereas the ignorant natives had owned their land in common and cooperated with each other.
4. Might makes right, and the strongest pirates took the most parcels of land. They also sent out expeditions to find more land that they could take from more natives.
If you don't like my story you must be a Communist, a Fascist, or some other kind of Evildoer.

Posted by: Coralie

December 5, 2012 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I saw this spray-painted on a wall, many years ago:

"ANARCHY RULES!"

Think about it... .

Posted by: CaptainQuint

December 5, 2012 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>I see we have a communist here. Interesting.<
jboy

Tell me how anything can define property unless government exists to define it and maintain property "rights." Those rights we self-assign to ourselves.

Government could exist for the opposite reason, to see there is no property rights.

Flat tax? Why not just a head tax, that way everyone pays the same amount.

Posted by: cdawg

December 5, 2012 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

It is amazing how communists use rediculous arguments about how the blessings of government will save us. I waited a couple days to see what the responses would be and what I see are socialist progressives (communists) trying to make arguments as to why it is their right to take what is not theirs in the first place.

Liberalism is a mental disorder and it is invisible to the idiots that are afflicted with it. Because these people are mentally disabled it would be unfair to to disparage their affilctions to some. Not me. All I have to say about it is what are you going to do when the people you steal from run out of things for you to take? That will mark the end of the silly game you play and take you with it.

The problem with liberals is that they can't create anything which is why they resort to theft and stealing through the proletariat that is their vote. Something a democrtically controlled congress and Lyndon Johnson unwisely granted them in 1965.

Productive and industrious people may be poor for a while but ultimately they'll be fine because they can create and produce again and again and more and more. However, in spite of their benevolence they have limits.

They won't create enough to save you too. They'll wait until you all expire as a result of your folly. Such an event cleans up the gene pool nicely, and it is certainly time to think about cleaning it up again. Soon liberal policies will force it to happen. Woe be to the meritless entitled.

Hahahahaha!!!!

Posted by: jeffieboy

December 6, 2012 at 11:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Thank you, jeffieboy, sort of like when the hurricane hit New Orleans, "ubran renewal".

Posted by: JailBird

December 7, 2012 at 2:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeffie: "It is amazing how communists use rediculous arguments...">>

What's amazing is how you can't spell the word "ridiculous" don't know what the word "communist" means.

Jeffie: "what I see are socialist progressives (communists) trying to make arguments...">>

Here you reveal you don't understand the words, socialist, progressive or communist. If you're going to communicate in English, why don't you at least take the time to learn the language?

Jeffie: "Liberalism is a mental disorder...">>

Another word you don't understand. No, liberalism is:

liberal: Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded” --American Heritage dictionary

Words have meanings. Learn them.

Jeffie: "what are you going to do when the people you steal from run out of things for you to take?">>

This is the Tea Party line of bull that claims taxes are just too high. But wait, back in the good old days, you know, about half a century ago, taxes were higher. Now they are at 60 year lows. See ten charts here:

http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/vie...

You would like to pretend that if we raised taxes on the wealthy (top 2-5%) just a bit, to something like during Clinton's time, so that we could actually pay for the over ten trillion in bills Bush racked up, that this would be some sort of "stealing."

You say:
"liberals... can't create anything which is why they resort to theft and stealing through... their vote."

Let's look at a clear example showing your claim for the nonsense it is. Let's look to some of the most successful productive economies and countries on the planet and how much they have collectively decided to tax their populace. Observe:

Percent of GDP coming from Tax Revenue, by nation:

1) Denmark - 48.3% - with a GDP per capita of $62,100 (#8 in the world)

2) Sweden - 47.1% - with a GDP per capita of $51,950 (#14 in the world)

3) Belgium - 44.3% - with a GDP per capita of $47,090 (#19 in the world)

4) Austria - 42.9% - with a GDP per capita of $49,600 (#17 in the world)

5) Finland - 42.8% - with a GDP per capita of $51,320, (#15 in the world)

6) Norway - 42.1% - with a GDP per capita of $94,760 (#2 in the world)

7) Luxembourg - 38.3% - with a GDP per capita of $109,900 (#1 in the world)

8) The Netherlands - 37.5% - with a GDP per capita of $52,960 (#11 in the world)

9) Australia - 30.8% - with a GDP per capita of $47,330 (#18 in the world)

10) Switzerland - 29.4% - with a GDP per capita of $64,330 (#6 in the world)
...
31) United States - 27.1% - with a GDP per capita of $46,350 (#20 in the world) [update: now 24%]

Source: The Economist Intelligence Unit 2011 World Book In Figures
-- http://tinyurl.com/bezrjpb

USA number one! We have no peer countries....

D,
----------
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-p...

Posted by: fayfreethinker

December 7, 2012 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeffieboy says "liberals...resort to theft and stealing through the proletariat that is their vote. Something a democrtically controlled congress and Lyndon Johnson unwisely granted them in 1965."
The Voting Rights Act of 1965 abolished literacy tests and poll taxes designed to disenfranchise African Americans.
You've preemptively called me a communist for disagreeing with you. So, can I call you a racist?

Posted by: Coralie

December 7, 2012 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

fft,

The European countries on your list use a VAT among many other taxes.

Posted by: Tankersley101

December 7, 2012 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jeffieboy should stick to telling chicken haulers where to go. I'm sure he's better at it.

Posted by: AlphaCat

December 7, 2012 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

When government fails, as it surely will, then you defend your property with a delightful .45 automatic.

I told a chicken hauler where to go once.

Posted by: JailBird

December 7, 2012 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

By the way, for you liberials, a .45 Remington 230 grain jacketed hollow point comes out of the barrel at 875 feet per second. It is death in a small package and if you score a good solid head shot, it will go in a hole less than an inch wide and take the back of the scull with it. They who covet your property unlawfully will covet no more.

Posted by: JailBird

December 7, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

"God might have made man, but Sam Colt, sure as hell, made them equel; and with practice they become even more equel."....George Washington and ME

Posted by: JailBird

December 7, 2012 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Yes, we can see you are "equel,"

Posted by: cdawg

December 8, 2012 at 1:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

>>Productive and industrious people may be poor for a while but ultimately they'll be fine because they can create and produce again and again and more and more. <

You're parroting arguments you've heard the adults use, aren't you.

I know a few people who are working two jobs and have for several years. They produce more and more with each passing year but the income somehow escapes them. They may be "fine" depending upon how the term is defined but I believe they're becoming somewhat broken down.
.

Posted by: cdawg

December 8, 2012 at 1:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

George Washington never made a comment about the Colt revolver since it wasn't invented until 1836, by which time Washington was long dead.

Posted by: Coralie

December 8, 2012 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I am equel to none and equal to all. I always had a problem with those narrow-minded fools who think a word can only be spelled one way. Kinda like Bible thumpers. 'or is that thumpars' who tell ya theere is only one way fer you to live, theire way.

Posted by: JailBird

December 8, 2012 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Also, I am a product of the government run education system, you expect intelligence?

Posted by: JailBird

December 8, 2012 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Most of us here are products of the government education system.
Some of us also use the public library, Wikipedia, etc.

Posted by: Coralie

December 11, 2012 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )