Chamber Plans To Support School Millage
Survey Says Voters Want Cost-Effective Construction
Posted: February 26, 2011 at 5:43 a.m.
Voters want all school construction to be as cost-effective as possible, according to the Springdale Chamber of Commerce. Voters also recognize the need for more classrooms to prevent overcrowding, said Chris Weiser, chamber chairman.
At A Glance
Value Of A Mill
The value of real property as determined by the county assessor’s office is the appraised value. The assessed value is 20 percent of appraised. Taxes are figured on the assessed value. Property taxes are levied as mill. A mill is one-tenth of a cent or one-thousandth of a dollar. The Springdale School District’s current tax rate is 38.6 mills.
Source: Staff Report
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Can we the voters see what we will be voting for? I won't vote for another HarBer
Posted by: Apbacker
March 2, 2011 at 4:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
It would be great if the Chamber would find a way to generate revenue for Springdale. How about spending the time filling empty buildings instead of doing surveys and studies. Maybe we wouldn't have a millage issue to debate.
Posted by: susiee
March 2, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AngieM --- Brown brick boxes work..that is what I had when I went to school and that is all that is needed today....There are plenty of empty buildings here in Springdale that can be used for classroom space.
BTW - I have been to HarBer and I see a LOT of wasted money
Posted by: Apbacker
March 2, 2011 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
APBACKER--
Since you so dislike Har-Ber for the profligate expenditure of public funds it represents, and you claim to have a background in construction/design (but apparently not architecture), please give examples of the wasteful spending in Har-Ber, and tell us what a less-expensive option would be in each case. So far, you have only given your unsupported opinion. To save needless back-and-forth, remember: the public approved the program of the facility, so don't complain about functional elements of the school such as classrooms, auditorium, and so on. Also, you can't complain about aspects of the building that are governed by code. And remember that cost is ongoing, so you have to consider lifespan, durability and maintenance as well as initial cost.
Posted by: AlphaCat
March 3, 2011 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Go see what Shiloh Christian's facilities look like, then go the Har-Ber.
Tell me who is spending money more wisely.
Posted by: x3
March 3, 2011 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
x3--
Looking at the facilities will not indicate who spends money more wisely. What was the cost per square foot for Shiloh Christian? How many students are enrolled? What Shiloh Christian school facilities were built by First Baptist Church, or are are shared with FBC? (If the church built the auditorium, that saved the school the facility with the highest cost per square foot. The gym would be another high-cost facility.)
From the Shiloh Christian School web site: "Tuition and fees comprise most of our operating income. FBC Springdale has never charged the school for using the facilities and utilities, valued today at over a million dollars annually. FBCS also budgets funds to subsidize the school operations as needed."
Posted by: AlphaCat
March 3, 2011 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
No different than all the various fundraisers public schools do.
Oh, and did we mention that Shiloh is less expensive than Har-Ber, despite the drastic difference in economies of scale?
"Looking at the facilities will not indicate who spends money more wisely."
Well, a palace costs more than an ordinary building, but has no effect on the education.
And Shiloh isn't the only private school around. Feel free to make other comparisons.
Posted by: x3
March 3, 2011 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
x3-- If a palace costs the same per square foot as an ordinary building, then why not build the palace? Having attended good and bad schools, I will dispute your claim that the facilities make no difference, and there are the matters of civic pride and quality of life to consider as well-- businesses certainly consider them when relocating. Some people consider it important to be able to tell the difference between a high school and a Zero Mountain warehouse. Any idiot can build an ugly building; most of them do.
If Shiloh Christian didn't build their facilities, or if they share them with the church, then there is no realistic comparison between the two schools. Not spending money because somebody else spent it for you is not the same thing as spending money wisely.
I asked those questions because I'd like to address your challenge, and the information is necessary for me to do so.
Posted by: AlphaCat
March 3, 2011 at 10:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AP Backer: " Brown brick boxes"?, and "plenty of empty buildings for classrooms" ? Are you seriously suggesting placing children all over the city of Springdale? or are "brown brick boxes" referring to mobile classrooms?, if they are brick obviously not.??
Your comment, this is what "they" had when you attended school.
I do not know how long ago or where you went to school, the point is TIMES and TECHNOLOGY and CURRENT needs for our future leaders can not be MORE important or vital in building a school, not just a "brown brick box" as you so state.
Every student deserves the best education we the tax payers can give them. Meaning the best teachers, the best learning facilities, the best arts program, the best music/band programs, and the extra curricular programs such as FFA, Agri, Student Council, - are learning opportunities that these student will grow and beome the very best leaders possible.
These students deserve more than a "brown brick box"
Could the buildings be toned down from high ceilings, tile work - possibly.
So I suggest you contact Dr. Bradshaw and as for a meeting, ask why the high ceilings and "fancy" tile, were chosen in the design of the new schools. Then not only you will know and have knowledge of the issue at hand. You will understand why "brown brick boxes" are no longer ( if they ever were) acceptable.
It is simple called the needs of our children,tomorrows leaders!!!!
Posted by: nikki1105
March 4, 2011 at 4:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Nicki 1105 - Lets see. All rooms have 6 flat areas, 4 walls, a ceiling and a floor, usually with windows and doors. That is all it takes. They don't need to have 20' columns, terazzo flooring or atrium ceilings. We are not out recruiting students to come here as the colleges do. Our tax money is not being spent wisely as far as I am concerned. As a tax payer I feel that since we may be paying for it we have a right to see what they intend to build before they build it or even better even before we vote on it.
Posted by: Apbacker
March 4, 2011 at 5:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
It is time for the school system to do some cutting back also. You can start with the top administration. Why do we have a superintendent for every school district and not just one for the county? What does a superintendent do anyway that the school board could not? They use our children to get more money from us and then they do what good politicians do, spend it. A tax increase is not the answer to poorly run school districts
Posted by: OldWiseManOnceSaid
March 4, 2011 at 6:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
consider transportation costs of having kids all over springdale.. wow, imagine the funding increase to provide for transportation (bus) for all those children going to all those different locations. Not to mention providing meals... that would be an additional cost also. How would we provide for the variety of classes required at the high school level? I don't think this plan is going to be effective.
Posted by: proud
March 4, 2011 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
APBACKER--
You haven't provided specific examples of wasteful spending at Har-Ber. Where are these tiles and 20' columns? Doesn't a twenty-foot ceiling have to be held up by 20' columns? Don't tiles provide a durable, easily-maintained surface for a building full of kids? You're the knowledgeable one here; educate us on the problem, so it can be solved.
Where is the waste? If you can't specify, you're just complaining. If you won't specify, you're just whining.
Posted by: AlphaCat
March 4, 2011 at 10:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Fact: The education at public schools (especially Springdale) is worse than private schools.
Fact: Public schools cost MORE money, even though due to economy of scale, they should cost less. Teaching thousands of students should be cheaper than teaching hundreds of students....but somehow administrative costs are much higher for public schools than private schools. In a typical public school, only about HALF of the tax dollars the districts collect go to the actual educational process (teacher's salaries, books, technology, etc.).
Fact: Public schools are in inflexible monopoly. When has any monopoly ever been the best to serve the needs of the people? Never.
Like I have said repeatedly, put in a voucher system, and watch what happens. The cost to taxpayers will go down, and the quality of education will go up.
Posted by: x3
March 4, 2011 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Question: By 'worse' what are you comparing? instruction? education of teachers? behavior? test scores? educational growth?
Question:How should teaching thousands of students cost less than teaching hundreds? Larger facilities are needed? Transporation must be provided? Maintenance and grounds crews are larger? etc.
Question: A monopoly requires no other options and there are other options to public schools in our area.. granted, not enough.
I also support vouchers, but not just because of the cost effectiveness... I think we have to look at the students we are serving first.
Posted by: proud
March 4, 2011 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Alpha Cat...20' fluted columns, on the front of HarBer, cost about $3500 ea, 20' steel beams cost around $300 ea. VCT cost about .75 cents a square foot, terrazo tile cost about $25.00 a square foot. Yes I work in the business... Architects are paid a percentage of the construction cost,usually around 6%, so the more expensive the building, the more they make.
Posted by: Apbacker
March 4, 2011 at 8:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
.
Three "yes" votes coming from our household. Last time we voted no because of the athletic facilities. American public schools and colleges are spending entirely too much money on athletics which do little to prepare a person for a career of work.
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This new approach is more sensible without the Chamber survey.
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Posted by: cdawg
March 4, 2011 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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